High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#4417 of 24700 CVT info by prattster Mar 11, 2004 (11:36 am)
http://www.nissan-global.com/GCC/Japan/NEWS/19991001_0e.html This should explain it somewhat. Basically the trans. gears are gone and replaced with a much smoother belt shift. The new Murano has it currently and some Audi's. Honda first had in the 96' Civic but the new units are high torque units that Nissan debuted first in the article.
#4418 of 24700 CVT by shipo Mar 11, 2004 (11:40 am)
CVT = Continuously Variable Transmission = No Gears Gear ratios are approximated by running one or more parallel "V" belts between paired grooved wheel sets, two on the powered side and two on the driven side per belt, which can independently and dynamically change their amount of separation, thus allowing infinite gear ratios between two preset extremes. For simplicities sake, I will attempt to illustrate how it actually works using only one belt and wheel set. Picture how the gearing works on your typical multi-speed mountain bike; three gear rings in front, and anywhere from six to nine gears in the rear cluster. Using the smallest front gear and the largest rear gear gives the greatest power at the expense of speed. Using the largest front and the smallest rear yields the greatest speed at the expense of power, everything else is somewhere in the middle. With a CVT, the front and rear wheel sets are cut on a bias forming a "V" groove. Both the front and rear wheel sets can change their distance from each other, which forces the "V" belt to ride higher or lower in said grooves, thus changing the gear ratio. I hope this helps. Best Regards, Shipo P.S. It looks like Prattster beat me to the punch as it were.
#4420 of 24700 Ok, who hacked in to Merc1's user? by mfullmer Mar 11, 2004 (12:51 pm)
Did something drastic happen or are you jibing us with that "German junk." statement? On the other hand, Buick is doing something different than other GM makes. I had a 1998 Buick Century that I put 56k miles on over 3 years and never had one warranty related dealer stop. Yes, the car was nothing to be admired for but then again, I couldn't have cared less about what people thought about my vehicle. Great, great vehicle. If it came with things that the higher end cars come with I'd be driving an '04 right now.
#4421 of 24700 CVT Challenged No More! by lexus0622 Mar 11, 2004 (3:21 pm)
prattster/shipo: Thank you, both, for the newly found information. shipo: Your bicycle analogy was right on until I got to the "cut on a bias forming a 'V' grove" part. That stopped me for a few moments while I tried to visualize the wheel sets going from defined gears to something more akin to a gradient, so that changes in the distance between the wheel sets resulted in the belt sliding up or down the V groove. Well, I was able to see that dynamic eventually. It may not reflect the reality of what happens mechanically, but I think I got the idea, and can see how a smoother "gear shift" results. Thanks again, folks!
#4422 of 24700 CR recommends Buick -- that's all I need to know by johncalifornia Mar 12, 2004 (2:05 pm)
One commentator on my criticism of CR's data gathering said: "Your overall point that surveys aren't perfect is a fair one. However I disagree with your conclusion that “the data is flawed and the results are worthless”. Yes the responses are voluntary, but that doesn’t totally invalidate them. When Gallup does a political poll or any other poll, the responses are also voluntary. And the results are, while not perfect, still generally in the ballpark." Please, there is a huge difference between valid Gallup surveying, where the polling organization initiates the response (this is NOT voluntary sampling), and CR/JDP type surveys, where the data source initiates the response. This last "voluntary" type of data gathering HAS NO RELEVANCE among statisticians, because the results will be skewed according to the biases of the respondents. Check the Fox Web site for their daily "instant survey" questionnaire -- the one you can fill out on the spot and then see the "results." Fox take care to say at the bottom of the questionnaire that, "This is not a scientific poll." Why? Because it's "voluntary" sampling. The results have no statistical validity whatever. Neither do CR's by the same scientific reasoning. There is no debate about this -- it's proven statistical science. But the fact that there IS no debate is telling: it's in the interest of the polling groups (CR, JDP) and the manufacturers to keep the truth benind these polls under the carpet. Anyway, no serious car enthusiast takes CR seriously in any form or manner. (And yes, CR do more than describe reliability -- they tell people what to buy, and it's usually a Buick.) Years ago Car & Driver magazine did a brilliant parody of CR. Now THAT is a car magazine worth reading. An opinion by one of C&D's editors carries more weight with me than a bushel of CR "surveys" or their fuddy-duddy recommendations of boring cars.
#4423 of 24700 johncalifornia by ljflx Mar 12, 2004 (4:05 pm)
But for every car enthusiast there are a 100 ordinary consumers who are car buyers and they feel the other way around. Bottom line is most ( a very high majority) will take the opinion of someone who won't take ads over someone who will. Me - I combine both - the world of the enthusiast mag and the world of consumer reports. Plus when every survey says the same thing and I see the same results through the experiences of those I know I conclude that those surveys are right on the money.
#4424 of 24700 John California by footie Mar 12, 2004 (7:03 pm)
I am unfamiliar with the branch of statistics that invalidates the CR/JDP polling and therefore disagree with almost all of your statements regarding their results. Can we take this over to the JDP/CR forum? I'd like to learn more about this!
#4425 of 24700 JohnCalifornia by andy71 Mar 12, 2004 (7:59 pm)
Consumer Report is the reason Toyota has surpassed Ford and Daimler Chrysler to become the second largest car company. Consumer Report is the reason the domestics are losing market share. If you don't believe CR's data that is up to you but don't insult other people's intelligence by stating that CR's data is flawed. CR is a very well respected magazine even among auto manufacturers and you can bet the big three is paying attention to their data. Consumer Report is the reason the big three is trying to improve their overall quality.
#4426 of 24700 It's pretty simple by ljflx Mar 12, 2004 (8:55 pm)
C&D (or whatever auto mag) reports its top 10 cars or its car of the year and maybe 1 in 100 news reports will carry it. Maybe.. CR reports its new car survey results and 100 of 100 news reports carry it. On top of that it gets notable stories in national newspapers like the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. You couldn't miss it if you tried. On the other hand the only people who know the C&D results are the subscribers. Now - who really carries the weight? JD POWERS makes a high percentage of its revenue from the Auto Mfrs. They respect and react to the data and can't live without it. Naturally the data they get is far more granular than the summary data the public sees.