High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

Messages Page 434 of 2471: 1; ...; 431; 432; 433; 434; 435; 436; 437; ...; 2471; Prev; Next; Last

#4325 of 24700 merc1 by ljflx Mar 03, 2004 (10:23 am)
When the market changes the manufacturers have to change with it or anticipate and lead it. Leasing was a natural occurrence for volume to be maintained or increased as the prices rose. MB would not have been able to sustain that 80's type of business model profitably long-term unless they became a small niche company. The very high prices opened the door for competion, hence Lexus, and at the same time brought about the desire to drive high luxury cars with minimal money down while your money was put to better use elsewhere. It was actually a normal business check and balance effect and one can argue that the Japanese anticipated this better than the Germans in 1989. This is the business side of auto manufacturing. A new entrant has to change the rules to be successful. You are correct - the Germans have to learn to build the cars differently in today's highly competitive market and at the same MB has to maintain an image above everyone else somehow in doing it. That is no easy task particularly given that mastering sophisticated electronics (which is a big part of the problem) favors the Japanese. In the past they were able to build the best and charge the most and then people held the cars for a lomg long time. Even though the cars were expensive the value was excellent because of the ownership longevity. But that was a different market in a different era before the technology and Wall street booms. Let me know what you think of the Automobile article on the Maserati. Also why do you think the A8 is such a poor seller? A throwback to the Audi accleration problem in the past maybe? I always thought that was overblown.
#4326 of 24700 lenscap by ljflx Mar 03, 2004 (11:02 am)
I read it. That just shows you how they are in over their heads on electronics. I didn't realize MB finished in 31st place of 32 brands in Germany!! Wow. Selling cars without code written - as per the story - is rather scary. In the computer world we call that beta testing. In the auto world peope are paying $40-$80k+ for cars that certified mechanics, from the manufacturers themselves, don't know how to fix (certain things but it is the most problem oriented things) and even worse have no reference manuals. That article is probably the most honest article you will ever see in an automobile magazine and is written from a consumer - not enthusiast - viewpoint.
#4327 of 24700 Sorry Merc wrong post by johncalifornia Mar 03, 2004 (8:55 pm)
I misread a Maser-bashing post as having been authored by you, when it was not. For some reason I reflexively think of you when I come across a non-Mercedes bash. <G>
#4328 of 24700 ljflx by merc1 Mar 03, 2004 (10:05 pm)
I just got the issue tonight. I haven't read the entire article, but I did see where they said that A8L is the better choice for most luxury car buyers. I agree with that assessment. The Maserati doesn't have the proper transmission to be daily-duty luxury car. I just like the fact that there is such a chic alternative in the class. As others have stated, Audi has an image problem in the country. The unintended acceleration problem isn't on too many people's minds today, but I'm sure it hasn't been completely forgotten. When I think of the idiots behind that it makes me sick. It's funny how none of those cases ever showed a defect with the car. Audi was guilty of placing the pedals in their manual transmission cars too close together for fat American's feet. You know heel and toe style. Anyway, it's pretty much Pablo stated, people just don't think as high of Audi as they do BMW and MB in this country. Their associate with VW doesn't help either, plus the reliability concerns all conspire to keep Audi below BMW and MB when it comes to the A8. Believe it or not even Audi's really hot cars like the RS6 sell out like E55s and M5s do. The dealer here has 3 of them, and has had them for a while now. The E55 moves much faster and the new M5 will be all but unobtainable this fall/winter. Audi just doesn't have the draw with the rich like BMW, and they're even further away from Mercedes-Benz. Mercedes can just about sell whatever they put a star on, not even BMW (Z8, 760Li are examples) can so easily do this. However the A8 just had its best sales year ever in this country, a whopping 4K cars!! With a new W12 model coming this fall, and a rumor short wheelbase model also arriving at the same time, they might be able to move 5K a year. Still only half of what the XJ does, and about 1/4 of what the S, LS and 7-Series do. M
#4329 of 24700 by mariner7 Mar 04, 2004 (4:44 am)
It's unbelievable all the glamourous projects VW undertakes: Bugatti, Lambo, Bentley, W12, Phaeton. I'm sure I'm missing 3 or 4. Meanwhile they're losing profits and market shares everywhere. How do you think the Germans should solve their reliability problems? First, they got to admit it. Before you can solve a problem, you've to admit you have it. MB's beginning to, I'm not sure VW and BMW know they've a problem. Second, do not be at the forefront of electronics. I don't think many people will miss idrive. Let the Japanese try out the new electronics in the cars first, and stay half a step behind them. The saying, 'Americans are best at computers, Japanese electronics, German mechanical things' still stands. People buy German cars not because of electronics, but in spite of them. Third, establish some research centers in Japan, and in China in the future. The Japanese have design and research centers in California and Europe. The big 3 and Germans have zero centers in Japan, I think. They're saying they don't have anything to learn from Japan. Well they're wrong!
#4330 of 24700 Merc1 by shipo Mar 04, 2004 (4:49 am)
Just a clarification: Audi was guilty of placing the pedals in their Automatic transmission cars too close together for fat American's feet. All of the cars that "Unintendedly Accelerated" were automatics, it seems that us manual transmission drivers were able to keep track of our feet a little better. Best Regards, Shipo
#4331 of 24700 shipo by michael_mattox Mar 04, 2004 (9:38 am)
Great comment!!!! I was about to put my feet on a diet...Just in case I went insane and wanted to buy an Audi.
#4332 of 24700 from Geneva by syswei Mar 04, 2004 (12:16 pm)
http://autoweek.com/specials/2004_geneva/volta/pages/index.htm I think they should produce both Lexus and Toyota-badged versions. Both brands suffer from a stodgy image.
#4333 of 24700 by kirstie_h HOST Mar 04, 2004 (1:52 pm)
A reporter is hoping to connect with anyone who has placed an order for the new Bentley Continental GT, or has seriously buying considered the vehicle. Please respond by Wednesday, March 10 to jfallonedmunds.com with your name, daytime contact information and a few words about why that vehicle got your attention. Jeannine Fallon PR Director Edmunds.com
#4334 of 24700 1988 560 SEL is a tank by jsb16 Mar 04, 2004 (4:38 pm)
I just sold one of these last week for my dad who was the original owner of the vehicle with 67K miles. I agree that it was solidly built but was more costly to maintain than my 1990 LS which had 100K more miles. The MB was much larger and made the LS look like a compact. Even the MB lovers out there have to be glad that Lexus came along since the sales price on that 1988 exceeded the sales price on the 2004 LS he bought to replace it. Time will tell if the LS holds up as well and is a 16 year keeper. I just replaced my 1990 LS with a 2004 LS as well and went to the Chicago Auto show the day before I closed the deal. I was surprised that the Phaeton was up on a carousel and unavailable to be more closely inspected. How VW misses an opportunity to take business from MB, Lexus, BMW, etc. owners is beyond me. So far I am liking the new LS but I have to get throgh the 700+ page owners manual/Nav manual to figure the whole thing out.