Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#4305 of 24726 DavieBoy1
Mar 01, 2004 (9:20 pm)
"I hear the BMWs have problems with snow even with snow tires."
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I have been driving in winter conditions (primarily in the Midwest and in New England) for over thirty years and have racked up an easy quarter of a million miles in the winter alone. In 1979 I switched from RWD cars to FWD cars based upon the "Hype" that they were better in the snow. Then in 1999, I switched back to RWD cars (2 BMWs) and as such, I can definitively say that my current car, a 2002 530i with winter tires (Michelin Arctic-Alpin), is the finest car I have ever driven in snowy and slippery conditions.
Considering the fact that we had 114" of snow in our town last year (I live in southern New Hampshire these days), I have had plenty of opportunities to drive the BMW in snow as deep as 8" and have had no problems at all. In fact, on one snowy day last January I needed to go and get gas for my generator (the snow and ice had accumulated to the point where the power lines were down all over the place) I was driving down our very hilly and winding main road (which was covered in 6-8" of heavily rutted snow) minding my own business when I had to slow way down because I caught up to a conga line of 4x4s!
#4306 of 24726 Jaguar is the Cadillac of Europe . . .
Mar 01, 2004 (9:45 pm)
. . . in all the good ways, not the bad!
SV7787 said: "As for Jaguar, I'm in their corner too. I've been thinking about retiring the venerable 92 LS400 in favor of a 01 Xj8. The design of the XJ just shouts out "Class," and Elegance."
Having owned both the BMW 740i and now a Jaguar XJ8, I suggest the two cars have different missions and are for different drivers, or as in my case, the same driver at different stages of life.
If you want to go fast the 7 will not disappoint. It's not really happy at 75 mph -- it wants to go faster. In the corners it's amazing for such a big car. The cockpit (of the previous 7 at least) is driver-oriented too, like an airplane.
At 75 mph the Jaguar XJ8 is in its element. It's a cruiser that will not embarrass itself in corners but it doesn't urge you to tear through them either.
A few years ago nothing less than the BMW would do -- I could ghost along the freeways at 100 mph in perfect safety and comfort.
Now I don't feel comfortable driving that fast, and I've allowed myself to give in to the walnut-and-leather embrace of the big XJ. (Nobody does leather and wood as well as the English. Nobody is even second.)
If you're coming from a Cadillac or Lexus, Jaguar could be your car. You'll know within five minutes of undertaking your test drive.
Today I was in a co-worker's '97 XJ6. He's had 135K trouble-free miles, and he says he drives the crap out of it. My '98 is a different generation and I expect nothing less of an experience in reliability and owner loyalty.
My point is, I was ready for a more "stately" sedan when I made the transition from German cars to English. Like Cadillacs of many years ago, Jaguar provides a luxurious and conservative driving experience with excellent reliability -- and there's plenty of motor when you put your foot down.
If you want to strafe apexes or tear up the autobahn, though, there are better choices than Jaguar XJ8. (The XJR is one of them!)
Mar 01, 2004 (10:12 pm)
A Jaguar will always, for better or for worse be a unique, low-volume car. Their uniqueness limits their sales and market penetration, but their appeal and image are still up there with BMW and MB, and for those who like Jags, nothing else will do. Well maybe a Bentley if you have the $$.
I like the XJR and XKR myself. Classics.
#4308 of 24726 The Porsche experience
Mar 02, 2004 (5:26 am)
ksurg, I enjoyed your description of the Porsche experience with one reservation. With regard to the 911 you said "it is not lightning fast nor does it have the best spec sheet." I appreciate the modest perspective but would like to add this to keep it in PROPER perspective. There is bragging-rights fast and there is lightning fast. THE 911 IS LIGHTNING FAST
The Porsche experience is about driving perfection, and the "luxury" of the Porsche brand is its ultimate combination of form and function. But one of the most eloquent, powerful descriptions of the Porsche experience I have ever heard comes from the February 2004 issue of Automobile magazine when they gave all-star awards to cars in 14 categories. The Boxster was the recipient in the sports-car category. What overwhelmed me is that it not only qualifies the Boxster but it also speaks volumes about the manufacturer and the revered 911 by default. I could not possibly put it into words any better than this:
"The two seat roadster segment is based largely on impulse and emotion. New roadsters sell well for a few years until they are deemed passe by the mix of enthusiasts and poseurs who consume them. In this constantly evolving segment, the Boxster is so immediately perfect and timeless that only slight tweaks are necessary to keep it on top. Porsche knows when to change, and more important, when change is unnecessary. A true Porsche, the Boxster feels crafted instead of merely built. It is beautiful to behold, still or in motion, and even better when you are the one putting it in gear. Boxsters speak so clearly through the controls that driving becomes an existential quandary of human getting lost in machine, in the snarl of the flat-six and the gentle pulsing of the leather wrapped steering wheel. Cynics will claim that there are less expensive sports cars that duplicate, or even surpass, a Boxster’s quantifiable abilities, but none has its noble grace, which is rarely found in machines at any price. Mesmerizing and involving, the Boxster is a living being in a segment full of automations."
Mar 02, 2004 (6:28 am)
That old MB leather - it looked cheap, more like vinyl - but that doesn't mean it was cheap. Obviously its durability proves its quality. Nevertheless - as a leasee I prefer the beautify of today's leather but as a long-term owner - should I go that route - I would have preferred the durability of the past leather on the older MB's. Leasing changed a lot of things. Back then some of these cars were bought for 10-15+ years of ownereship.
Mar 02, 2004 (7:57 am)
The main reason Lexus trails the competition in the car lineup is due to a lack of variety. The LS only comes with one engine choice. Although that will change soon. The Merc S class offers four choices from the S430 to S600 to S55 AMG. Same with the GS only two choices. BMW offers 4 powertrains from the grossly underpowered 525 to the lightning fast M5.
I think the problem with Mercedes begun when they switched from DOHC 4 valve per cylinder to SOHC 3 valve per cylinder in 1998. All the pre 1998 Mercedes were built to last forever, the same cannot be said for the current generation. It is good to know that Mercedes learned their lesson and going back to DOHC engines. My dream car is a 911 Turbo with automatic.
Mar 02, 2004 (11:34 am)
I don't understand all this Porsche talk. It's hardly a "...Luxury Marque".
Nice sports cars though.
Mar 02, 2004 (12:51 pm)
I guess we'd have to debate the word "luxury". By definition it qualifies.
In my opinion there are two types of luxury cars:
1 - couch-potato luxury
2 - sport luxury
If you want to throw it out be my guest, but as a fine upstanding citizen of Edmunds, I'm doing my part to provide a respite from that MB/Lexus topic. And besides, I think you couch potatos can use a little exercise.
All in fun
Mar 02, 2004 (4:03 pm)
No reason why we can't talk about Porsche here from this corner ...
#4314 of 24726 Couch Potato
Mar 02, 2004 (4:34 pm)
Seemed appropo to me.
BTW, I have declared a self-moratorium on Lex/MB debate. I enjoy the talk about Porsches although I don't own one nor plan to own one. Hence, you can put me in the *couch potato luxury* camp
All in fun, as well