Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Feb 29, 2004 (9:42 pm)
The C-Class isn't the most direct competitor for the Buick-clone ES330, nobody else is even playing the fwd, Buick-like game in the entry-level market anymore. Even Acura has moved to making, or at least trying to make the TL a sports sedan.
Where does Mercedes have the lead in sales?
Let's see the E-Class outsells the GS, and the C-Class outsells the IS300. Some here talk about Lexus' sales like everything they make is at the top of the sales charts and nothing could be farther from the truth. Period.
The SL and SC sell nearly equally, despite the SL's much higher price. Wow the LS430 outsold the much more expensive S-Class by something like 2000 units last year, somewhere around a months worth. Wow.
The one point that you and others never seem to be able to get is that most of the Mercedes' competing models cost more than Lexus', yet either outsell or sell very close to the same volume. The only place Mercedes is hurting sales wise compared to Lexus is in SUVs. Mercedes sold way more CARS than Lexus did last year. The GS, old or not, that's and excuse and if it can't be used for the M-Class, then you can't use it for the GS, and the IS300 are duds sales wise.
You're also trying to imply that Mercedes' wouldn't sell much without the C-Class. Wrong. Look at what the E, S, and CLK did last year, all up over 2002, especially the E-Class.
Typical Lexus rant, it's not even current on the facts. There is no C280.
A 400hp GS400H would be nice, but it will still get its windshield and lug nuts handed to it, by an E55 AMG, M5 or RS6. I doubt very seriously Lexus will make a 400hp GS of any type, hybrid or not for the same price as today's GS430.
#4298 of 24726 A couple of you don't seem to understand
Mar 01, 2004 (9:37 am)
There will be no winners in this endless Lexus vs. Mercedes debate because most of the folks doing the debating are unwilling to concede anything, they all think they are right and other side is blind.
This makes for pointless, repetitive, aggravating and often way-too-heated conversation that accomplishes nothing but to drown out the other comments in here. It needs to stop.
Let me say that again - it needs to stop.
Anyone here who can't find anything else to talk about but this Lexus vs Mercedes argument is invited to find another discussion to join.
I'm calling a halt to it in this one as of now.
Mar 01, 2004 (9:44 am)
The majority of Lexus sales come from four models: ES, LS, RX, and GX.
One of the reasons the ES sells so well is because it is practically the only choice in its category. With the death of the I35, and the sport-emphasis of the TL, there is no other 30k to 40k import sedan that emphasizes comfort and cushy ride above all else.
There are a lot of shoppers who look for the above qualities and don't really care about handling, and they select the ES330 almost by default.
Mar 01, 2004 (11:18 am)
A question for Ksurg: If you could sum up the Porsche experience in one sentence, what would you say? I ask this b/c I found myself gawking at one earlier today. (I think it was a C4, but I don't know how to distinguish between them. Imagine Porsche building a Luxury car..That would be something..
As for Jaguar, I'm in their corner too. I've been thinking about retiring the venerable 92 LS400 in favor of a 01 Xj8. The design of the XJ just shouts out "Class," and Elegance. I don't think anyone does a better job in the Lux brand in terms of aesthetics. Jag has done
I agree with Designman about the 911. It brings me to the old aphorism, "If it ain't broke, Don't fix it!" I find that the automakers are redesigning perfectly good models just for the sake of calling it new. The old 80's S class Benzes were perfect examples of this.
As for the Endless MB vs Lexus argument. Give it a rest, it's not like either side is going to concede. Call in the UN to negotiate a Peace Treaty between the MB and Lexus camps, LOL.
#4301 of 24726 I agree, let it rest
Mar 01, 2004 (1:48 pm)
On the other hand, I have a good MB story. Now, granted, I'm a Lexus guy and the only reason I'm telling this story is because I'm waiting for my new Lexus to arrive...
...So, I'm waiting for my lexus to come in, sometime in March, but I had to return my STS from lease. Lexus offered a loaner but for a couple of weeks I just used my friends car that he offered. Talk about SWEET!
1988 300SEL, 241,9xx miles, Two owner. Every single maintenance record (every 5k miles) in the glove box.
Now if MB made them like they used to, I'd buy them in an instant! Yes, the car was a bit underpowered with the straight six but the quality of the vehicle is phenomenal! The 16 year old leather looks better than the three year old leather in my STS when I returned it. The dash and all interior materials look great, save for a little fade of the top dash and the wood.
Two weeks in my garage and not ONE single drop of any kind of fluid. Stereo (Becker Grand Prix) works flawless, even the antenna.
Took it in for a wash before I returned it (I decided to take Lexus up on their loaner offer) and the detailer was flabbergasted. He thought it was MAYBE 10 years old.
I'm still a Lexus guy but I definitely know how MB earned their [former] reputation That car is like a vault!
If any of you ever get a chance to drive a high-mileage, well taken car of S-Class from that era (is that the W124 body???) I would highly recommend it.
Mar 01, 2004 (2:40 pm)
The Porsche is pure driving pleasure. It's always engaging and never boring. The car is telepathic when it comes to response and extraordinarily nimble. Sort of makes you feel like superman. This is despite the fact that it is not lightning fast nor does it have the best spec sheet. Go figure!
The down side is that it is not the best car to be a passenger in( probably downright uncomfortable when the driver is making believe he is Schumaker). Unfortunately, my life also necessitates multitasking in the car on a regular basis. Consequently like any tool I choose my car for the day based on the job at hand. Sometimes it's the C4S, often the sedan, and occasionally a Yukon XL( actually I drive the Yukon XL for awhile after I've been in the Porsche for a few days just to tone down my driving habits).
Something that's not talked about a lot on this page is diversity. Even in the "high end luxury marques" I get bored of the same old stuff. I may still be a kid at heart but I enjoy change. Don't you remember when you were a kid looking at concept cars and every one was "cooler" than one before. I try to enjoy whatever car I have. Cars don't define who we are but they sure are fun to experience.
#4303 of 24726 A8, BMW745i and snow
Mar 01, 2004 (8:22 pm)
Anyone with experience with the cars in snow in the midwest. AWD vs RWD. I hear the BMWs have problems with snow even with snow tires.
#4304 of 24726 mfullmer
Mar 01, 2004 (9:12 pm)
The car you speak of is the "W126" S-Class/bodystyle.
Not to get into the Lexus debate again, but the type of leather that Mercedes used back then was used for that exact reason, lasting quality and more importantly durability. None of that torn drivers seat mess you see on other cars of that era, but of course others saw the leather in older Mercedes as being cheap and not luxurious enough so they now use something that comes closer to pleasing people who are impressed by such things as how soft/supple leather is.