Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#4241 of 24726 lenscap
Feb 26, 2004 (1:39 am)
So noted. I'm having a problem with the side view of the production car vs. the concept. It didn't quite hold up.
Actually Mercedes is going back to DOHC engine design, not just joining any bandwagon. Their last group of DOHC engines was from 1989-1997.
I don't think of us are falling for any marketing labels, everyone clearly sees this is just a swoopier sedan, but that's what market presence does for MB, they and some others (Saab for example) can get away with it. Audi scrapped plans to do a 4-door coupe version of the A4 right before the CLS was announced. I can only imagine what that car would have looked like.
The 6-Series and CLS will occupy the same price space, but that's about it. The CLS won't hope to match the dynamics of the 6-Series and the 6 isn't going to match the rear-seat room/practicality/luxury of the CLS. Really Autoweek is right; there is nothing else quite like the CLS right now, well except for maybe the Maserati Quattroporte, another swoopy coupish-like (styling) sedan.
Feb 26, 2004 (6:51 am)
Ever heard of CL and CLK? Those are 6 series competitors.
#4244 of 24726 CL and CLK?
Feb 26, 2004 (3:18 pm)
Hmmm, do they have a manual transmission? No? Well then I guess I haven't heard of them.
#4245 of 24726 The CLS doesn't make sense to me
Feb 26, 2004 (6:42 pm)
Let's see, it's based on the E-class but bigger on the outside and, I'll bet, smaller on the inside. It's got sporty pretentions but it's got four doors and is heavy. Is the CLS supposed to be stylish alternative to the stodgy E-series and the pricey S-series?
If so, then it's a completely unnecessary car -- style for style's sake -- and a complete refutation of everything Daimler Benz used to stand for.
But then, Damiler-Benz are gone. Sometimes I see the three-pointed star and momentarily forget. When the star is attached to a CLS, however, I need no further reminders.
Feb 26, 2004 (9:32 pm)
Reguardless of the transmissions the CLK and to a lesser extant the CL are competitors to the 6-Series, as are the Lexus SC430, and Jaguar XK8. All of these cars are aimed at folks who want a luxury/GT car and have no need for 4-doors.
Good points, but things have changed...they've discovered that "style" helps sell even more cars. But you're right this isn't the same old stodgy company it used to be.
The car is on paper, pointless, but they'll probably sell every one that they bring over.
Feb 26, 2004 (10:12 pm)
"The car is on paper, pointless, but they'll probably sell every one that they bring over"
Wanna bet ?
I have to agree with john. Counting the CLS, how many trims/models does MB now have ?
All for what ? MB remained mired in 3rd place in lux car sales in the US, down from numero uno just a few years ago. Would the CLS push MB car sales higher ? GM's Cadillac is breathing down MB's neck for 3rd place, and may do it this year. I just don't get it with MB and umpteenth new models.
See Lexus don't need no stinking gazillion trims to be #1 in less than 15 yrs. Lexus business model seems to be much better than MBs. Lexus will come up with a very refreshing redesign, add hybrid technology, improve safety features, and make electronics much better integrated. And retain their top selling position regardless of what MB, BMW, Audi/VW does.
Unlike lenscap and ljflx, I dislike the CLS. It is unnecessary and a bloody waste of good money.
#4248 of 24726 bluestar1
Feb 26, 2004 (11:46 pm)
No, Lexus doesn't need "no stinking gazillion trims to be #1", all they need is 1 very popular car and one really popular SUV to get a number 1 sales title. Meanwhile the GS, IS and LX don't do squat for those impressive press releases about sales numbers. In fairness LS is the seller for its segment. However you should quit trying to mislead everyone into thinking that Lexus' sales might is based on an all-star lineup of high sellers because it isn't.
The fact remains that Mercedes' sales are more spread out and they aren't as dependent on just few models for their sales numbers. The C, E, S, SL, and CLK all pull their weight. Lexus depends on the ES, RX and to a lesser extant the GX for all their sales glory. The IS, GS, LX don't do squat for the sales press releases.
Are you ever going to understand the Mercedes' pricing may have just the slightest effect on them selling more cars than Lexus? Where is it written that sales = best cars? All this talk about sales sounds like GM type rhetoric to me. This isn't beneath the great Lexus?
On these points all I can say is apply the correct quote.....from your post #4209.
"Yada yada yada.... Really very boring stuff this.......Very boring indeed. Give it a rest will ya ?"
About the CLS, whether or not you see the point or not is irrelevant, it will most likely be in hot demand as any newly introduced Benz has been in the last few years. The MB "business model" isn't as good a Lexus', but yet Lexus has expressed interest in offering more models to broaden their appeal. Hmmmmmm. Example: Lexus tries to cover the CLK and SL segment with one car, yet doesn't come close to comparing to the SL and is only competitive with the CLK. Wise marketing if you want to limit the appeal of the brand. Meanwhile Mercedes gets double the market presence (and sales since they're so important to you) in the convertible/GT segment. If Mercedes can't do anything else they know how to market their cars. They are a master of this.
As far as seeing the point, I see no point for the IS300, as hardly anyone looking for performance is shopping Lexus, ditto the GS430. Witness their lack of sales. Yet a LS430 with a 4 second 0-60 time has a "point". Right. To you a Benz is a waste of money, period. Why would the CLS be any different?
When Lexus comes up with a "refreshing" design, please let me know. All I see in their lineup right now is bland or ugly.
#4249 of 24726 Whoa, slow down...
Feb 27, 2004 (5:50 am)
My comments regarding the 6-Series were made in fun. If and when the time comes for me to buy a car in that class, I will definitely be considering all options. Well, maybe not all of the options, to tell the truth, there is nothing that Lexus has produced in the last ten years that has left me anything other than cold.
Feb 27, 2004 (6:41 am)
No escaping it. Style and looks sell. You think Julia Roberts is the best paid actress because she's a great Shakespearean actress?
CLS's gonna be the biggest thing in the luxury market in years, outdistancing that whale lookalike 6 by miles. There's a gorgeous photo in autospies.