Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#4236 of 24726 pablo_l
Feb 25, 2004 (4:45 am)
I share your thoughts; thankfully the Arnage has at least a few more years to go.
What you were missing in the BMW was that cockpit feel that BMW used to provide. They've all but abandoned that concept. The 3-Series is next.
The CLS (CLE was just the concept name, though I like "CLE" better) is supposed to be a 4-door Coupe, and yes it is based on the E-Class platform. Mercedes seems to deem whatever bodystyle they want to be a "Coupe". First the hatchback C230 is a Coupe, now the 4-door CLS is a "Coupe" also. Only at Mercedes-Benz.
The CLS350 (all new 3.5L V6 268hp) and CLS500 (5.0L V8 302hp) will be priced between the E and S-Class sedans. Both will have the new 7-speed tranny also. Expect some type of AMG version in a year or so.
Britain's CAR magazine (you guys have got to pick up a copy this magazine, it puts the US mags to shame) said that BMW and Audi wishes they could position a car in their ranges like MB has done with the CLS, we'll see if that pans out. Again, I personally wanted a true 2-door coupe based on the E-Class, but there hasn't been one since 1995, and what a car that was, btw.
I had several issues with CLS. I say had because one of them was not and issue as it turns out. I'm pretty much cool with the CLS as long as IT IS NOT the styling direction of other future Mercedes-Benzes. That fear *seems* to be unfounded. The next S won't look like the CLS. My other issue is that while they did make the interior a little different, they didn't go far enough. I'm not sure what all colors and woods will be offered on the CLS, but they should be from the Designo group and they should be standard order items on this car (none of that extra charge stuff), you know make is different and special. Secondly I would have liked to have seen a different interior design, not just and updated E-Class interior.
I still don't know about this car. I guess I'll have to see it in person. Too bad the concept wasn't at Detroit.
Feb 25, 2004 (6:58 am)
As a guy who loves Lexus, you can count me as another one who really thinks the CLS looks fantastic.
#4239 of 24726 mainer7
Feb 25, 2004 (1:16 pm)
"...and then replies with the CLS, which the opposition has no answer for."
Hmmmm, ever hear of the new (as in soon to be released) 6-Series BMW?
Feb 25, 2004 (6:06 pm)
What exactly is it that the CLS does that other 4 doors don't? The whole marketing shtick around a 4 door coupe is crap: it has 4 doors, it looks like a sedan, it is a sedan. It just offers the S and E class benefits with a different, swoopier design, and that's that. The only thing they're doing is checking whether the luxury sedan market supports 3 different product lines, as opposed to the traditional 2 that everybody has settled for. But it's like Saab calling their wagon a sports-hatch. I mean, come on. Let's not be suckers for marketing labels...
You want to see what a real 4 door coupe looks like, check out the Mazda RX. The Merc CLS has *ntohing* in comon with it, and everything in common with the usual sedan proportions.
#4241 of 24726 lenscap
Feb 26, 2004 (1:39 am)
So noted. I'm having a problem with the side view of the production car vs. the concept. It didn't quite hold up.
Actually Mercedes is going back to DOHC engine design, not just joining any bandwagon. Their last group of DOHC engines was from 1989-1997.
I don't think of us are falling for any marketing labels, everyone clearly sees this is just a swoopier sedan, but that's what market presence does for MB, they and some others (Saab for example) can get away with it. Audi scrapped plans to do a 4-door coupe version of the A4 right before the CLS was announced. I can only imagine what that car would have looked like.
The 6-Series and CLS will occupy the same price space, but that's about it. The CLS won't hope to match the dynamics of the 6-Series and the 6 isn't going to match the rear-seat room/practicality/luxury of the CLS. Really Autoweek is right; there is nothing else quite like the CLS right now, well except for maybe the Maserati Quattroporte, another swoopy coupish-like (styling) sedan.
Feb 26, 2004 (6:51 am)
Ever heard of CL and CLK? Those are 6 series competitors.
#4244 of 24726 CL and CLK?
Feb 26, 2004 (3:18 pm)
Hmmm, do they have a manual transmission? No? Well then I guess I haven't heard of them.
#4245 of 24726 The CLS doesn't make sense to me
Feb 26, 2004 (6:42 pm)
Let's see, it's based on the E-class but bigger on the outside and, I'll bet, smaller on the inside. It's got sporty pretentions but it's got four doors and is heavy. Is the CLS supposed to be stylish alternative to the stodgy E-series and the pricey S-series?
If so, then it's a completely unnecessary car -- style for style's sake -- and a complete refutation of everything Daimler Benz used to stand for.
But then, Damiler-Benz are gone. Sometimes I see the three-pointed star and momentarily forget. When the star is attached to a CLS, however, I need no further reminders.