Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Feb 16, 2004 (3:44 pm)
My my...How things change in this forum..I must admit I can see Mfuller's point. I don't see how choosing a 745i over a LS430 is "Buying down" As far as I'm concerned, when someone makes comments about my Lexus cars I challenge them to find a better experience. I proudly point to my 1992 LS400 which had $3 (That's right THREE dollars) in non scheduled maintenance issues over 11 yrs. Still can hear a pindrop with the engine running.
I've complained before that these cars are overdoing it on the horsepower. The 250 HP on my 92 LS is more than enough. The 290 HP on my LS430 is tempting me to engage in some foolishness. Where exactly are we going to use it? I don't think it's worth the ticket from the good old State Police. What is it with the questions about Lexus buyers? I'll state the reasons why I've bought 3 and will continue to do so:
1) Quality, Quality, Quality. Nice to have a pretty car, but what's the point if it spends time in the shop. Time is money. Never been stranded my any of the LS cars, Ever.
2) Service: You sneeze in a Lexus dealer and they'll wipe your nose for you. Okay a little exaggerated...But they've handled the insurance company wonderfully on my 1992 LS. All OEM parts, and brought the loaner car to my house and let me have it for 11 days, and for the repeated visits afterward.
3) Price. After paying $67K in 9/02 I was starting to wonder whether this car was the value it once was. I paid $43K in 9/92 for my LS. But if you look at the competition, I can see why they're a winner. I drove the S-Class, BMW, and Jaguar. They're all nice cars, but I couldn't justify the price premium in my mind. We're all reasonably well off here, but I'm sure we know the value of a dollar.
Never had an issue trying to sell one. In a fit of rage, I put my 92 for sale a few weeks ago. I had 4 calls immediately. They were even willing to pay full purchase price. The Lexus mechanic told me I was crazy to sell such a nice car, and I recovered my senses and held on to it.
I realize paying more money is supposed to imply prestige or god knows what. Keep in mind paying a premium doesn't always imply better quality or what not. A $10 Casio Quartz watch will likely be more reliable than a traditional geared Rolex. (No joke, I assure you. Rolex even charges you an extra $1,000 for "Advanced Quartz technology") Why the price disparity? Simple, we all put a premium on fashion, uniqueness, prestige..You are all entitled to do what you want with your money, but don't criticize the informed Lexus buyer who puts a premium on piece of mind rather than Autobahn rated performance.
BTW, Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are proud owners of LS430's. I don't think they're "Buying down"
Feb 16, 2004 (5:19 pm)
per your link - If I only had one Lexus vehicle I'd only be in the shop 2 times a year (maybe 3 times in year one because they do a quick 1k mile check). I go 8-10k miles between visits. But Lexus is very much like MB in that you will tend to buy your second car as a Lexus as well. Thus your service visits double. The service they give you is phenomenal (at least in all my experience) so you remember it very well. One time when they screwed up on a loaner car for my wife they actually drove her home in a stretch limo and then picked her up. They also told to have the driver take her wherever she wanted to go. That is not service you forget. I've never had a car in for anything but maintenance in 9 years. But with 3 vehicles I am in there about 5x a year.
Feb 16, 2004 (5:52 pm)
The 745i is an inferior car than an LS430 for more money. The quintessential definition of "BUYING" "DOWN".
#4158 of 24726 Not to take sides...
Feb 16, 2004 (6:19 pm)
...but, by what measure is the 745i an inferior car?
If you mean which one will most likely cost the least in money and aggrivation, you're right, it's probably the Lexus. However, if you're standard unit of measure is which one is more capable at speed, or which one can get around a closed circut the fastest, then the Lexus ain't got nuthin' on the 745i.
Feb 16, 2004 (9:25 pm)
The GX470...yes it was loaded, had everything on it.
Yes...I'm also aware of Lexus' service practices.
That's what I'm talking about, running under that assumption that nobody else has ever had a good experience with anything other than a Lexus. It's getting tired and a little ridiculous.
On the LS board there are posts about problems, just like any other cars. YES, they are less frequent than other brands, but they are there.
Now tell me on an 11 year old car, are you counting all the things that any car will need to have done in that time frame, as "maintenance" instead of repairs. Your post reads like a Lexus will never, ever have anything to wear out and eventually need "attention". Its funny how on other boards people with Lexus' of that vintage have to have anywhere from $2500-3500 worth of work done on their cars for various things.
#4160 of 24726 Enough Already!
Feb 16, 2004 (9:53 pm)
Folks, let's move on. Unless, of course, we don't have anything else to offer? If that's the case, then I suggest we take a break for a while and post when we have something more substantive to contribute.
Any one know when Bentley will release the new color offerings for the '05 GTs expected late this year?
Feb 16, 2004 (10:49 pm)
I can't help with the Bentley question, but I can suggest a new direction.
There was a new Audi A6 shown today. You can see it at Germancarfans dot com and the carconnection dot com. I'm not nearly as impressed with it as I was the A8 upon it's introduction.
I still didn't get much from anyone here on th Maserati Quattroporte??
Comments on either?
Feb 17, 2004 (3:10 am)
The Maserati is and will remain an exotic, just like the Bentley. All the brands mentioned in this thread are larger volume mainstream ones.
Some would claim that the definition of true luxury is utter scarcity: a Rolex is a mass watch -though perceived as a precious luxury good by a wide section of the population-, a Parmigiani or Vacheron Constantine or Audemars Piguet a different matter.
To a certain degree, it entertains me to see how much passion some have riding on what at the end of the day are all quite utilitarian sedan drives. I thought only sportscar fans felt that pasisonate about their cars. Then again, I notice a lot of passion in here is about brands rather than cars, which seems somewhat odd, but at the end of the day just a manifestation of the the-brands-I-advertise-are-part-of-my-individual-identity-and-exp- ression mentality in modern life which some Calvin&Hobbes cartoon so brilliantly mocks.
I like the Maserati a lot it has some of the less utilitarian appeal the old Jag XJ model used to have, sacrificing some function for emotion. Perhaps it's just the fact it's the utter oddball brand in the US these days. With the Bentley, actually much prefer the old Continental to the new one. The new one is a great car, no doubt, but the old one is a true classic with enormous character and an immense presence the new car lacks (but might develop in 30 years or so if they corageously stick to the same model .
Feb 17, 2004 (4:02 am)
Try as I might, and I've seen the car 3 times now, I just can't like the new Bentley Continental GT. It looks like it should say "Timberland" on the hood instead of "Bentley".
#4164 of 24726 If the shoe fits, .....
Feb 17, 2004 (5:21 am)
Merc1: Please, please, please, cut the car some slack! I know you see a big shoe when you look at the GT, but I'm getting ready to place my order after having waited for over a year. I need a little empathy here, fella.
I know that you "calls 'em as you sees 'em," but say something nice, please. I need a little boost. "Timberland?" Really? Help me out here; be kind.
I need to hear from a new owner. There should be at least one of you out there from the European market where the GT has already been released. First ones should be getting here soon, so you closet new purchasers need to stand up and be counted!!!