Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#4072 of 24726 2005 Maserati Quattroporte Forbes' Review
Feb 09, 2004 (7:46 am)
Here is the link for Forbes' review of the 2005 Maserati Quattroporte they just broadcast - http://www.forbes.com/2004/02/09/cx_dl_0209feat.html. It appeared just before I saw merc1's review from Chicago and especially his time with the Quattroporte. I found the following quote very interesting "... Maserati is gunning for BMW. When designing the Quattroporte, the company hoped to emulate the driving dynamics of BMW's M5 sedan and the content and features of BMW's 7-series sedan".
I recall showing a picture of the Quattroporte to my wife asking her opinion when it first appeared in Automobile Magazine a few months ago. Of course, since she is from Italy, I was somewhat stacking the deck.
#4074 of 24726 7-series problems
Feb 09, 2004 (10:28 am)
That is why it is so hard to even think of leaving the Lexus fold. Ordering a sports suspension LS430 for a 3 year lease before end of February for late April delivery. You need to get in early to get the sport suspension. Then I am very anxious to see that next LS design. The sport suspemsion is a great car - 95+% of the perfect LS ride with real nimble handling.
Feb 09, 2004 (11:12 am)
I really concur with ljflx! He gets right to the point of how hard it is to leave Lexus once you have purchased/leased a new Lexus (however, I have to limit my experiences to the V8 rear-wheel drive models like the LS and GS).
I made a post on this thread a while back where I focused on the "true cost" of the ownership experience which I believe is far more important than the actual price of the vehicle.
I suspect that you will get your entire purchase price back minus some possible usage (although I would fight that assumption). If it is not heading in that direction, my advise would be to retain an attorney that specializes in Lemon Law cases.
Best of luck.
#4076 of 24726 ljflx - Next LS in 10/06 ??
Feb 09, 2004 (11:22 am)
When do your dealership sources and readings indicate that we will see the next entirely new LS? Based on your post, it appears that you are expecting to trade the LS you are ordering on the next new LS in March 2007.
Are you expecting the new LS to hit dealers in OCtober 2006? I can not seem to get a real handle on exactly when to expect it. The only firm knowledge seems to be that the new GS will be in dealer showrooms in January 2005.
As I had mentioned before, I am waiting on the new one to replace the LS I have but my wife also like the pictures of the new GS.
#4077 of 24726 New German Cars
Feb 09, 2004 (11:59 am)
My friend got one of the new 7 series and it has been in the shop several times, too. I had an MB which was out of service for 40 days while they replaced the engine block. The car was only 4 months old. I wasn't too impressed with the honda civic they loaned me during the repairs. My next car was a Lexus and like so many on this thread, I can't imagine considering a BMW or MB anymore. My LS is 3 years now and I just ordered a second. There were no other models to consider.
I think the durability and quality of MB and BMWs has declined in the last few years. Both in their cars and in their service. If you find a problem with your Lexus, the dealer will bend over backwards to keep you happy. They can afford to - it doesn't happen very often.
Feb 09, 2004 (12:25 pm)
A very sad tale. Hopefully BMW will buy your car back and you can get some other brand. One striking thing about your post was "The wait for service if one wishes to have a loaner car is several weeks." At my local Lexus dealer, they were out of loaner cars for me once and they just picked up the phone and rented a car for me for a day. It was a Camry from the Toyota dealer down the street, but better than nothing.
There was a more funny than sad annecdote on this board some weeks ago...a ML owner had both bumpers fall off the vehicle after running it through a carwash!
#4079 of 24726 jamesfletcher
Feb 09, 2004 (12:27 pm)
I don't think there is any hard info or even reliable rumor on the next gen LS. Clement said recently the whole line would be new by Spring 2007. A reasonable expectation for the LS would be sometime between fall 2005 and fall 2006.
#4080 of 24726 jamesfletcher2
Feb 09, 2004 (1:23 pm)
I fully expect the next gen LS will be a 2007 model and will be available in Oct 2006 - at the latest. My sales guy told me I'm on the perfect 3 year plan right now for always getting the latest significant changes. But Lexus is getting aggressive in their roll-out plans for this new LFS design and I think they just want to get it over with for the LS,IS and ES ASAP. Toyota's financial resources are sky high right now so they can do almost any aggressive move they want to. So I would not be surprised if the new LS is available as early as the Spring of 2006 as a 2007 model. I don't think they want the S-class to have a one year lead anymore and with BMW shooting themselves in the foot this is becoming an LS vs S battle in the long run. The Maserati won't cut it here in my opinion and whatever it does will likely hurt BMW and Jaguar.
Speaking oof Jaguar - a business acquaintence had to have his transmission replaced in the fall. After a lot of negotiations with Jaguar they cut him a deal that allowed him to only pay for the labor (about $1200) as the car was about a year past warranty. This was a classy act by Jaguar as the transmission cost over $9k. But he only had 30k miles on the car. Now the car died on him again and is in the shop for 10 days. His comment to me last week was "I never had a problem with a Jaguar until I bought one". He's had numerous minor problems before but now he is flat out disgusted. What is with these European cars?
#4081 of 24726 lenscap
Feb 09, 2004 (5:57 pm)
I did get Automobile today and saw that GS comment. The car does look sleek in the picture they show. What is a bit confusing is that it seems AWD may only be put on the V-6 but maybe Automobile got it wrong.
Next to it is the story about the 12cyl A8. I must say I think the Germans have lost their minds with these rocket power engines. The V-8 power and 23mpg I get in the LS430 with a 6.5 second 0-60 is more than sufficient and is a beautiful blend of power and good gas mileage. These super powerful engines are putting excess on top of excesses and you hardly ever need or can use the power anyway. The German carmakers would serve themselves a lot better to invest in building the cars better and improving their reliability problems. I'm also no fan of Audi's new corporate grill. The one on the current A8 is bold and beautiful and should be left alone.
The funny story in automobile is on page 34 where they accuse VW of copying the Lexus HPX style with its possible future C1 hatchback. Now I must say I like this C1 Crossover but that is most likely because I like the HPX so much - and it is a copy.