High End Luxury Cars

24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#3971 of 24697 Thanks merc1, Great Report - by jamesfletcher2 Jan 22, 2004 (5:56 pm)
Merc1, As others have said your report on Detroit was great. I had planned on going but missed the Detroit show for the first time in three years or so. I try to go every year just to fight the wind and cold on Jefferson Avenue going into Cobo. When I saw two versions of the new BMW 5 Series at the DC Show and the rest of the BMW models, I also could not believe what has happen to BMW. I know I have said this before, but as a prior BMW owner I do not even consider them anymore. It is such a shame what has been done to one of the great automotive brands in just 3 years or so. If it wasn't for the Mini and their SUVs they would be in serious sales trouble. Will BMW's senior management ever wake-up? Thanks again. Jim
#3972 of 24697 merc1 by ljflx Jan 22, 2004 (6:05 pm)
Thanks. Great report. I also saw that wall of JD Power awards at the NY show last year and it is quite impressive - whether you like or dislike Lexus. Did Lexus show the HPX at this show and if so what did you think. I know the minivan is not your cup of tea but some of us are married with kids and need these type of vehicles. Also is BMW going anywhere in the GST/HPX segment or ignoring it altogether. God only knows what a Bangle designed minivan would look like. Do you really think BMW is going to let him wreck their vaunted 3-series? I think you're right - 5-series will do well for a brief period and fall like a rock. That's why I think Lexus is making such a big mistake with the next GS. Any hint at the show about the next gen S-class? I saw your less than stellar comments about the Maybach but did you happen to see the Rolls? Finally - given all the cars you saw - what is your dream car and what is your reality car?
#3973 of 24697 Thanks, Merc by footie Jan 22, 2004 (6:23 pm)
Good report for those of us that couldn't go.
#3974 of 24697 Merc, a little Deja Vu? by lexus0622 Jan 22, 2004 (8:15 pm)
Your September 2003 posting on the Bentley Continental GT discussion: "I've tried to like this car, but can't. It looks like a giant VW Bug or a shoe." I guess your view has not changed!
#3975 of 24697 jamesfletcher2 by merc1 Jan 22, 2004 (10:28 pm)
Yes, BMW is losing me as a fan big time, even the 3-Series isn't as desireable as it used to be with all the other unattractive models sharing floor space with it. Sound silly I know. I don't think BMW's management sees a problem, yet. ljflx, Yes Lexus did show the HPX, it looked smaller than I thought it would be. It's just a raised station wagon, to me. The new GS however should have had the HPX's front end and sides, it would look a lot better. Funny you should ask about BMW and the HPX/GST market. Autospies has a article clearly showing BMW's Chris Bangle looking over the GST, along with other high-level BMW execs. Britian's "CAR" magazine has an article about 2 crossovers that BMW is supposed to be planning. I'm sure they aren't going to ignore it, but they'll be hard pressed to get a crossover to stay true to the BMW "driving" theme. Yes the BMW 3-Series is next in line for the Bangle treatment. In his defense the new 6-Series wasn't designed by him, but Bangle is the head of BMW design so he takes all the flac. They'll probably tone it down for the 3-Series, but if that trunklid is part of the deal then forget about a good looking car. Yes (see post after report) I saw the Rolls, stunning in every way except for the front end treatment, it looks unfinished. "Finally - given all the cars you saw - what is your dream car and what is your reality car? " If I must pick one it would be the Aston-Martin DB9 Volante. Such a gorgeous car. Reality cars: Infiniti G35 Coupe (interior redo is rumored for 05'), Saab 9-3 Aero, Audi A4 3.0, and in the distance.....the revised 05' C-Class. lexus0622, I said that before huh....I guess I'm holding firm on that opinion of the car. Do you realize what a new Bentley is supposed to do to the high-end market? Its supposed to be the second coming, and this Continental GT just fell way short of that. It's so NOT attractive. I'm glad you guys liked the report. Anyone want to fly me to Geneva in March? M
#3976 of 24697 Merc1 by shipo Jan 23, 2004 (4:32 am)
"Yes the BMW 3-Series is next in line for the Bangle treatment. In his defense the new 6-Series wasn't designed by him, but Bangle is the head of BMW design so he takes all the flac." Very interesting, call me fickle; however, even though I detest the E60 and E65, I love the E63. I was actually wondering if Chris Bangle had finally gotten one right, then you let slip that it wasn't penned by him. Either way, I still like the E63, go figure. Best Regards, Shipo
#3977 of 24697 ljflx, merc1... more on BMW by designman Jan 23, 2004 (5:08 am)
ljflx, "Also is BMW going anywhere in the GST/HPX segment or ignoring it altogether. God only knows what a Bangle designed minivan would look like." I recall reading that BMW has no plans for a minivan. Their rationale is that it does not fit into the ultimate-driving-machine scheme of things. Curious how the SUV does. I love the marketing spin. They call their clientele knowledgeable technophiles, yet treat them like simpletons when dishing out the BS. merc1, you alluded to the M3 yesterday. I test drove an 03 M3 convertible with SMG last month in search for a third-car toy. It was appealing since my wife was interested in the 330cic and doesn’t like the manual tranny. Figured I could kill two birds—she’d get her 3, I’d get a rocket. Bottom line is that I didn’t care for the SMG. In both auto and manual modes the gear transitions were jolting, as if some car hit you in the rear with every shift. Also those 18-inch low-profile tires on top of that suspension are murder on NY metro roads—extremely rough ride. Handsome car though. 04 is the last opportunity for “old-world” 3-lovers... get ‘em while you can. I can’t wait to see what the next M5 will do for enthusiasts besides raising more ire. They’d better have 6-speed and an improved SMG. I hear the 04 SMG is improved, but if they forsake the conventional 6-speed, just add it to the list of complaints and watch the sales drop, especially with a hefty price increase. With a V-10, this baby has to be at or over $100K. This new age of power will be very interesting. I’d like to know what enthusiasts are going to do with all of this muscle besides feeding their egos and swilling martinis as they admire their garage queens. I don't think BMW could give a rat's butt about M5 though. It seems platform diversity is at the core of their marketing strategy, and I believe each model will suffer at the expense of such strategy as attention per model becomes diluted.
#3978 of 24697 Designman by shipo Jan 23, 2004 (5:20 am)
I too have wondered just how much sillier this horsepower race it going to get. I am currently driving an E39 530i with a 5-Speed, and while I would have liked a little more power every now and then, I don't think I have ever really needed any more power. Now I have fallen in love with the E63 6-Series in 645Ci guise with a 6-Speed (three pedal variety). Assuming that I do in fact find a 645Ci in my garage in another year or so, I suspect that I will probably still occasionally want some more power. Ditto if I ever pop for an "M" car. Can you ever really have enough? Best Regards, Shipo
#3979 of 24697 designman by ljflx Jan 23, 2004 (8:43 am)
The minivan will fit into their "ultimate driving machime" culture the moment MB and Lexus make it start to be a hit. Ultimately the cash book is the determining factor of everything. Is there any other reason why BMW and then Porsche built suv's. merc1 - agree on the GS comment re the HPX. That is where Lexus missed it in my opinion. Also - I think the G35 is a great looking car but I have never paid attention to its interior. It would be funny though to see you in another Japanese car given your German automobile patronage. But I guess the G35 could easily have been a German car. I have now seen both the the Maybach and Rolls on the road and have concluded the Rolls puts the Maybach away. But I would expect Darth Vader - when he was a bad guy - to step out of the back of a Black Rolls. It has that type of mystique.
#3980 of 24697 ljflx, shipo by designman Jan 23, 2004 (10:30 am)
ljflx, “The minivan will fit into their "ultimate driving machime" culture the moment MB and Lexus make it start to be a hit. Ultimately the cash book is the determining factor of everything. Is there any other reason why BMW and then Porsche built suv's.” Good point. But don’t hold your breath with BMW and minivans—it ain’t happening in the near future. Shipo, with regard to power “Can you ever really have enough?” I hear you… good question. As a matter of fact it would make an excellent thread. I will answer it this way. I know power provides a lot of "utility" within the realm of legal speed limits such as passing etc., but I also parse it another way. I guess if I ever see flashing lights in my rear-view mirror in the heat of a passionate moment, indeed, I will have had enough!