High End Luxury Cars

24685 messages, Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 4:40 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

Messages Page 398 of 2469: 1; ...; 395; 396; 397; 398; 399; 400; 401; ...; 2469; Prev; Next; Last

#3969 of 24685 Merc 1 by designman Jan 22, 2004 (4:51 am)
Merc 1... nicely done... thoroughly enjoyed reading your report as I do with all cogent commentary on style. One thing I would like to comment on is “I'll have to wait and see this one in different colors...” with regard to Enzo. I believe a well-designed car looks good in any color, even one’s least favorite. If you have to judge it by color, the car is compromised IMO. Your distaste for BMW has been no secret and I share your scorn. I’m not sure what will replace my “antique” 03 530 down the road, but if BMW doesn’t get its act together it will be out of my life. It never ceases to amaze me what they have done to their ENTIRE repertoire. And it’s not over... we will have to endure the new 3 and 1. “So stylish the Italians are!” Amen. In addition, there is this independent sports-car maker in Stuttgart who also has something going with minimalism. I anxiously await the arrival of 997 and surely hope Porsche can remain autonomous. I also like the SLR... has some art deco to it. In any event thank God for sports cars, without which I’d be aesthetically starved. Everything else seems to be getting uglier by the day.
#3970 of 24685 designman by merc1 Jan 22, 2004 (5:25 am)
Yes, I must be honest, that "I must see it different colors" line is really an excuse for an ugly car, most of the time. However this time I truly couldn't see how much of a scoup the car has on its sides because of the dark color and my viewing distance from it. The dark color also hides the length of the car. I suspect they did this intentionally, Ferrari ususally uses their signature red, not that dark red. But then again that bright red wouldn't look right on their "GT" car, as the 456 never wore red either. It always dressed in dark Blue or Black. I guess I need to see the car in silver, but yes I ninety-nine percent agree, a good looking car wears any appropriate color well. Meaning even an A8 can't wear Orange. The next few years will be very telling for BMW. I think that once the new got-to-have it factor wears off the 5 its sales too will drop, just like the 7-Series. If BMW uglifies the M3 I'm done with them......it is the only remaining good looking BMW to me. You could have never told me this would happen back in 2001. M
#3971 of 24685 Thanks merc1, Great Report - by jamesfletcher2 Jan 22, 2004 (5:56 pm)
Merc1, As others have said your report on Detroit was great. I had planned on going but missed the Detroit show for the first time in three years or so. I try to go every year just to fight the wind and cold on Jefferson Avenue going into Cobo. When I saw two versions of the new BMW 5 Series at the DC Show and the rest of the BMW models, I also could not believe what has happen to BMW. I know I have said this before, but as a prior BMW owner I do not even consider them anymore. It is such a shame what has been done to one of the great automotive brands in just 3 years or so. If it wasn't for the Mini and their SUVs they would be in serious sales trouble. Will BMW's senior management ever wake-up? Thanks again. Jim
#3972 of 24685 merc1 by ljflx Jan 22, 2004 (6:05 pm)
Thanks. Great report. I also saw that wall of JD Power awards at the NY show last year and it is quite impressive - whether you like or dislike Lexus. Did Lexus show the HPX at this show and if so what did you think. I know the minivan is not your cup of tea but some of us are married with kids and need these type of vehicles. Also is BMW going anywhere in the GST/HPX segment or ignoring it altogether. God only knows what a Bangle designed minivan would look like. Do you really think BMW is going to let him wreck their vaunted 3-series? I think you're right - 5-series will do well for a brief period and fall like a rock. That's why I think Lexus is making such a big mistake with the next GS. Any hint at the show about the next gen S-class? I saw your less than stellar comments about the Maybach but did you happen to see the Rolls? Finally - given all the cars you saw - what is your dream car and what is your reality car?
#3973 of 24685 Thanks, Merc by footie Jan 22, 2004 (6:23 pm)
Good report for those of us that couldn't go.
#3974 of 24685 Merc, a little Deja Vu? by lexus0622 Jan 22, 2004 (8:15 pm)
Your September 2003 posting on the Bentley Continental GT discussion: "I've tried to like this car, but can't. It looks like a giant VW Bug or a shoe." I guess your view has not changed!
#3975 of 24685 jamesfletcher2 by merc1 Jan 22, 2004 (10:28 pm)
Yes, BMW is losing me as a fan big time, even the 3-Series isn't as desireable as it used to be with all the other unattractive models sharing floor space with it. Sound silly I know. I don't think BMW's management sees a problem, yet. ljflx, Yes Lexus did show the HPX, it looked smaller than I thought it would be. It's just a raised station wagon, to me. The new GS however should have had the HPX's front end and sides, it would look a lot better. Funny you should ask about BMW and the HPX/GST market. Autospies has a article clearly showing BMW's Chris Bangle looking over the GST, along with other high-level BMW execs. Britian's "CAR" magazine has an article about 2 crossovers that BMW is supposed to be planning. I'm sure they aren't going to ignore it, but they'll be hard pressed to get a crossover to stay true to the BMW "driving" theme. Yes the BMW 3-Series is next in line for the Bangle treatment. In his defense the new 6-Series wasn't designed by him, but Bangle is the head of BMW design so he takes all the flac. They'll probably tone it down for the 3-Series, but if that trunklid is part of the deal then forget about a good looking car. Yes (see post after report) I saw the Rolls, stunning in every way except for the front end treatment, it looks unfinished. "Finally - given all the cars you saw - what is your dream car and what is your reality car? " If I must pick one it would be the Aston-Martin DB9 Volante. Such a gorgeous car. Reality cars: Infiniti G35 Coupe (interior redo is rumored for 05'), Saab 9-3 Aero, Audi A4 3.0, and in the distance.....the revised 05' C-Class. lexus0622, I said that before huh....I guess I'm holding firm on that opinion of the car. Do you realize what a new Bentley is supposed to do to the high-end market? Its supposed to be the second coming, and this Continental GT just fell way short of that. It's so NOT attractive. I'm glad you guys liked the report. Anyone want to fly me to Geneva in March? M
#3976 of 24685 Merc1 by shipo Jan 23, 2004 (4:32 am)
"Yes the BMW 3-Series is next in line for the Bangle treatment. In his defense the new 6-Series wasn't designed by him, but Bangle is the head of BMW design so he takes all the flac." Very interesting, call me fickle; however, even though I detest the E60 and E65, I love the E63. I was actually wondering if Chris Bangle had finally gotten one right, then you let slip that it wasn't penned by him. Either way, I still like the E63, go figure. Best Regards, Shipo
#3977 of 24685 ljflx, merc1... more on BMW by designman Jan 23, 2004 (5:08 am)
ljflx, "Also is BMW going anywhere in the GST/HPX segment or ignoring it altogether. God only knows what a Bangle designed minivan would look like." I recall reading that BMW has no plans for a minivan. Their rationale is that it does not fit into the ultimate-driving-machine scheme of things. Curious how the SUV does. I love the marketing spin. They call their clientele knowledgeable technophiles, yet treat them like simpletons when dishing out the BS. merc1, you alluded to the M3 yesterday. I test drove an 03 M3 convertible with SMG last month in search for a third-car toy. It was appealing since my wife was interested in the 330cic and doesn’t like the manual tranny. Figured I could kill two birds—she’d get her 3, I’d get a rocket. Bottom line is that I didn’t care for the SMG. In both auto and manual modes the gear transitions were jolting, as if some car hit you in the rear with every shift. Also those 18-inch low-profile tires on top of that suspension are murder on NY metro roads—extremely rough ride. Handsome car though. 04 is the last opportunity for “old-world” 3-lovers... get ‘em while you can. I can’t wait to see what the next M5 will do for enthusiasts besides raising more ire. They’d better have 6-speed and an improved SMG. I hear the 04 SMG is improved, but if they forsake the conventional 6-speed, just add it to the list of complaints and watch the sales drop, especially with a hefty price increase. With a V-10, this baby has to be at or over $100K. This new age of power will be very interesting. I’d like to know what enthusiasts are going to do with all of this muscle besides feeding their egos and swilling martinis as they admire their garage queens. I don't think BMW could give a rat's butt about M5 though. It seems platform diversity is at the core of their marketing strategy, and I believe each model will suffer at the expense of such strategy as attention per model becomes diluted.
#3978 of 24685 Designman by shipo Jan 23, 2004 (5:20 am)
I too have wondered just how much sillier this horsepower race it going to get. I am currently driving an E39 530i with a 5-Speed, and while I would have liked a little more power every now and then, I don't think I have ever really needed any more power. Now I have fallen in love with the E63 6-Series in 645Ci guise with a 6-Speed (three pedal variety). Assuming that I do in fact find a 645Ci in my garage in another year or so, I suspect that I will probably still occasionally want some more power. Ditto if I ever pop for an "M" car. Can you ever really have enough? Best Regards, Shipo