Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#391 of 24723 To Ferrary on post #411. AUDI
Jul 14, 2000 (2:04 am)
Right! Audi! Beautiful Car! Actually first Audi Coupe was the first car I was crazy about. And than...
1. I've red a lot about. Technological marvel. Aluminum body, space frame, all-wheel drive, unique design, 300hp... I started to fond...
2. I checked the car at expo. Impressive! Fit and finish, materials, front seat space - outstanding!
3. Friend of mine purchased cabrio, I believe '97 with 172hp. Supposed to be more than enough for such a small car, but actual driving experience TO ME was extremely dissapointing. Mostly because of lack of power, especially at low revs. I started to criticize... Oh, BTW, later he was trying to improve performance by tuning and even got it S badged. But to me, only the badge was actual improvent. He sold the car after about 6 months.
4. New A6 came on the market. I visited dealer and took car for a ride. Even worth! With such lack of power (200hp on paper) even Tiptronic was absolutely useless. And when I tried back seat - I got TRAPPED! No kidding! I barely was able to get out!
5.My wife was crazy about A8. So, we went to get one. I tried and ... WOW! What a car! Everything was just right, but only from the driver's seat and that's why:
a)That car was black on black and to me interior was even more spartan that on old MB.
b)Sound was terrible.
c)Don't remember exactly now, but something was wrong with a/c.
AND FINALLY - that car was the WAY more expensive than S420, 740 or Vanden Plas! Surprise? Not really. In 1999 Audi sold less then 2300 cars (A8) in USA and this with very aggressive advertisement campaign, free cars for celebrities etc. I think that only relatively successful A4 allows Audi to stay in business in the US.
SO, LEASE COST on Audi was about 30% higher than for the equally priced car (68K) from MB, BMW or Jag!
Now comes decision making process:
1. Is Audi better looking? Not really.
2. Is Audi faster? Not really.
3. Does it have the appropriate prestige recognition? Definitely not.
4. Does it have more power? Better handling? Better safety? Again not really.
5. Am I crazy about interior? Not really.
6. Do I want to pay 30% more for it? NO!
MY CONCLUSION - no more Audi! I emphasized this intentionally - this is ONLY MY opinion!
Everything is a matter of personal preferences, blonds or brunettes, Canon or Nikon, MB or BMW ...
Actually, such kind of discussion has no point at all. I'll never be able to convince MB owner that BMW is better and otherwise..., so I'm just expressing my OWN perception, just because somebody may find this interesting or useful...
And new Jag's S-series, again to me, looks just like a slightly polished latest Taurus. Take a closer look - you'll notice!
Jul 14, 2000 (3:33 am)
You seem to be one of the only people on edmunds who understand where I'm coming from. Money give you certain freedoms, and I believe you should enjoy them. Waiting for the million that you will have at retirement from IRAs,401ks,etc is not the answer to me. What is a 62 year old man with a million dollars going to do? Spend it on a 20 year old slut probably. Of course you can appreciate money at any age, but probably a little more in your youth and middle age. Besides, who knows how long we are going to be on earth. Today may be that rainy day. Planning for tomorrow, but enjoying today.
My true happiness comes from my beautiful and pregnant wife,and 2yr old daughter. Family has always been the thing that meant the most to me. I believe family is what life is really all about.
Back to cars. I think that most people who buy luxury cars are doing so for prestige as well as luxury, safety and so on. Peace.
#393 of 24723 stealth7 and kappaman
Jul 14, 2000 (6:27 am)
the A8 costs so much because aluminum construction is pioneered on the car, and the research put into the car is vast. it seems overpriced, but audi loses money one every A8 they sell. i dont understand, at the beginning of you comment you loved the interior but at the end it is spartan. and the new A6 biturbo which is cheaper will beat a 528i or E320 in acceleration so the 2.8 is really a moot point.
i dont see why you think the new MB S is much better than the A8, check the CandD comparo, and the A8 does place it ahead, and their complaints about lack of leg space is remedied in the A8l. also it had the fastest acceleration. but enough about the A8. i dont think any of these cars are bad. it troubles me when people only buy things because they like to impress others or try to put on an image that really is hollow. if you like an MB, get it. if you like the jag, get it. but dont buy one because you want to impress the neighbors. i can tell if someone buys a car because they like it and a person who buys a car and wants to show everyone how rich they think they are. why do you think many of the richest people drive ordinary vehicles. bill gates drives an LS400. i doubt he drives it because it is prestigious or will impress the neighbors. they dont buy a car to put them into some esoteric league obtained by only a few, they dont care. it's a car and it made them happy.
kappaman-don t kid yourself into thinking that you've obtained some exalted status by driving the world's finest vehicles...for one thing, there are so many other things to do with your money. find a cure for cancer. feed the starving. and 6 different cars over the span of what 10 years, isnt that excessive esp when you obviously dont buy them because you like them but buy them because you think the neighbors will think you are rich. people so obsessed with self image and worth suffer from the narcissist complex. it's treatable. you could start by pleasing yourself and buying whatever you like regardless.
Jul 14, 2000 (8:28 am)
you all have to remember that audi's name was falsely tarnished by 60 minutes, and they later apologized for their poor reporting. in Europe, audis sell the same as MB and more than BMW. audi is still recovering from this, but with such good cars as the A4 and A6 and A8, they have created car that are better than MB and BMW. look at autosite, and for luxury pics, the A8 gets the ultimate pic twice, same as S class. and it is older. no 7 series. the A8 doesnt impress as much as the S class to people who dont know cars. it is class without flash and mass. the S class is a great car but has questionable interior plastic and a weird COMAND system. the A8 does have a better quality interior. MB and BMW quality are also not exactly stellar compared to audi...in consumer reports, the A6 and the E class had the same reliablility. it was only average. they dont mention the S class or A8. the S has horrible problems with the suspension and electricals now. the E has glitches after 4 years. the A6 has glitches too. the 5 has glitches. no cars have incredible reliability. all are good.
#395 of 24723 ferarri11
Jul 14, 2000 (8:36 pm)
While Kappaman can certainly defend himself without my help, I must add to your comments. I personally get annoyed at people who tell those who have money "find a cure for cancer" or "feed the starving." While those are noble causes, it appears that Kappaman wants to do something else with the money that, I assume, he earned. An old friend, a minister, (I am still not preaching religion to anyone) once told me, "the best way to help the poor is to NOT be one of them." He always spoke of prosperity to whomever he met. If I want to spend my money on a homeless shelter, I will. But if I want to spend that same money on a Jaguar, it will be just as well spent, because the money is mine, and spending it on ME is just as noble a cause as the shelter. It is one thing to be selfish. It is another to first take care of one's SELF (and family, if such exists).
Jul 14, 2000 (10:10 pm)
It ain't that serious man. I ain't Bill Gates, so I don't have enough money to find the cure for cancer. By the way, no amount of money has yet. As far a feeding the homeless is concerned, I do. It is part of what I do as a KAPPAMAN. We also do voter registration, bone marrow donation drives, muscular dystrophy drives, toys for tots and so on. I also mentor the youth and college student. I'm not the super selfish guy you seem to think I am. Just because I like to buy expensive cars doesn't make me an a** hole. I'm really a nice guy...until I'm pushed.
Bill Gates driving a LS400 does mean much to me. Ophray driving an A8 does mean much to me. My driving a Jaguar mean a lot to me. You see I've want a Jaguar since I was about 15 years old. The only reason I waited to get the Jag is reliability concerns. When J.D. Power and Intellichoice gave them excellent report I took my chance with them, and they have been no less reliable that the other brand that I've owned.
ferrarri11, I am a legend in my own mind. I was that way when I was driving a Cutlass. My head was already pretty large. Remember, I told you I have the cars because I belief I deserve this type of luxury. Now I can afford them, so I have them. As far as seeking help, I married a woman with a psychology degree, and she helps me buy them. I know, we both need help.
One question for you ferrarri11. If you think luxury car buyer are crazy, why are you chatting about high end luxury cars, and what makes you think that I would pay this type money for a car that I didn't initially like?
Jul 14, 2000 (10:14 pm)
Correction. Bill and Ophrah driving what they drive doesn't me much to me.
Jul 15, 2000 (9:09 pm)
i dont have anything against buying expensive cars, i have an A6 2.7t. you said that you owned or leased 6 luxury cars in a 7 year span. correct me if i am wrong. if you bought each one and sold them in succession, you lost over 40000 though depreciation. it is wasteful, and the warranty is not even up. i could only justify this excess if i had a large nest egg. if the economy turns sour, could i support my family still if i loose my job? i hope you can answer yes to this question before you make a dealer happy selling back a perfectly good car for another. most cant say they can. during the 1980s in houston, many people on my street were buying excessively and when the economy turned sour they had to foreclose. it was a good part of town. we werent poor, but in a few months we had only half the number of neighbors. i only speak because of experience. you said that it's better to spend money when you are young rather than old. while this sounds good when times are bright, it will put you in the poor house quickly when the economy crashes. and it will. my family has had money for more than a century and we still have it because it wasnt wasted. we live well, but not excessively.
stick with a car you like and dont even bother what everyone else says, you dont need to impress somenoelse to be happy only yourself.
Jul 15, 2000 (11:52 pm)
You are still making assumptions. I plan for tomorrow, but I enjoy today as much as I can. What you call waste I call an experience in luxury. 7 cars was in about 5 years between me and my wife. Didn't lose but about a fourth of what you think. I've got ways and means. Don't ask how. Ancient African secret. Not really worried about the economy, I have contingency plans for that. Besides, I put my faith in God, not the economy. I'll be alright, but thank you for looking out for me. "Those who can do, those who can't teach". I'm about doing what I want and can.
The cars are not where my happiness lay. I've had some problems with all them. They are material wealth. While nice, I understand they are not the keys to life. I have not had the fortune of my family having money for a century, but then again, "God bless the child thats got his own". We've done fairly well, and our offspring will benefit for years to come.
ferarri11, its obvious that we look at things differently. Thats cool with me. It takes all types. I'll accept you calling me shallow, silly, and all that other stuff. Hell, I can laugh at myself and actually may agree with you. Its all good, I ain't mad at you. I still will do my best not to insult you like that though.
Well, don't much more we need to discuss about the luxury car thing. When I look at it, we really haven't talk much about cars at all. Anyway, peace.
Jul 17, 2000 (11:46 pm)
that's good. i just wouldnt like what happened to the people down my street and other acquaintances to happen to other people, even people i dont personally know.