Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Dec 22, 2003 (10:53 pm)
Well I don't doubt that Mercedes needed to spread costs out over a broader base, after all Mercedes has been at the forefront of new technology and innovation since, well since forever, so I agree with that. Toyota and GM are the ones that should be feared, they have the biggest pockets, though GM is still years behind in overall luxury car execution compared to Toyota. I guess I'm not as worried about GM because while they are selling a lot of cars and trucks they still have to use a pile of incentives to do so, Toyota doesn't. Cadillac's comeback will have run it's course in a 2-3 more years, and then what will be the question.
My problem Daimler-Benz is that they picked one of the weakest companies around to merge with or takeover (let the court decide which). Daimler-Benz was in great shape before 1998. I still want to believe they could have made it with Smart and maybe one other brand to spread costs out over, not needing the entire Chrysler group of troubled brands. I just don't see this merger working. It's going to kill Mercedes-Benz the day they attempt to sell a co-engineered platform under a Mercedes-Benz product.
Now BMW and Porsche are the just about the last two remaining "independent" smaller car companies on earth, along with Honda. I'm wondering how BMW stays in such great shape yet their "business model" is very similar to Mercedes'. Porsche saved themselves for a while longer with the Cayenne. I don't see BMW ever doing anything with GM, it will surely be the passing of BMW if that ever happens. GM is about the most clueless company around when it comes to managing their foreign brands. They're already using Chevys and Subarus for future Saab products. Better to let BMW die before something like that happens, and Saab too for that matter. Yes I believe in protecting brand uniqueness just that strongly. I see Porsche being bought up by DCX, but under the control of their across-the-street neighbor, Mercedes-Benz, now that would be some union. I want Chrysler to be spun off before its too late. Something tells me that this will happen if the next big round of new Chrysler doesn't change things. Mercedes-Benz can't continue to support all of DCX.
Audi's model is so similar to the Japanese one so they're probably in the best postion. The have all of VW, which sells millions of cars, to spread costs around. Not to mention Skoda, Bentley, Seat, and Lamborghini.
Jaguar will never be a threat to MB or BMW overall because Jaguar was never designed to be a volume brand, and Ford surely isn't going to spend the money to do that. Plus I seriously doubt people will ever buy Jaguars on the scale they do MB and BMWs, their style is not for everyone. Though they are gorgeous cars to me.
"Hey - we've been at this another year. I enjoy it despite our difference of opinions. Have a great (and safe) holiday. "
I know! Isn't it wonderful!!! You buy that SL500 and I promise I'll take a look at the next IS300 when it comes out....lol. As always I enjoy every minute of our conversations on this board, it's been about 4 years now, I think. Happy Holidays to you also.
#3840 of 24726 HELP! Price for 2003 MB S500
Dec 23, 2003 (6:30 am)
Help! Before we go and buy this car (today), the dealer is quoting "invoice" of 90K for the following S500 (new): Sport package,parktronic, keyless go, rear-side blinds, wood trims, navigation, e-trunk closer, tire-pressure monitoring! Does that sound right to any of you experts? The color is Black opal/stone interior -it's a beautiful looking car (& my husband will not buy a Lexus...)but the cost, for a 2003, still seems high to me. Any suggestions greatly appreciated!! Jamie
Dec 23, 2003 (7:59 am)
Try going to the blue New Cars tab at the top of the page and following the links to get Edmunds TMV and other info.
Dec 23, 2003 (8:24 am)
If the car is for you...You need to let your husband know who is boss (like my wife does)
You can get a fully loaded 04 Lexus LS430 with all that S500 equipment and More for $70,000 a $20,000 savings (would buy a nice diamond)
You'll have more Luxury, the quietest car on the planet, A tremendous sound system, self closing doors as well as trunk, a much better Nav. system
and lots of other goodies.
Not only that but you will get the most dependable car made, a car you can count on.
Dec 23, 2003 (8:29 am)
michael_mattox, she's not asking about a Lexus.
Can anyone help her with her specific question?
Jamie, you might also post in our dedicated Mercedes-Benz S-Class discussion. Someone who might miss your message here may see it there.
Dec 23, 2003 (8:55 am)
I agree with the perception that, whatever Chrysler brought to the union, MB could have done by themselves or get a better fit. It's a bit like the BMW and Rover union. Seems a product of megalomania, perhaps combined with some valid business mandates. Perhaps over time the vision is to enhance a sanitized Chrysler brand and retreat the Mercedes brand back into more of a luxury territory? Then again, Crrysler is such a non-entity internationally. Oh well, what's done is done.
Also agree with the fact that Volkswagen seems to actually have set an excellent basis for brand management going forward. Volkswagen itself is another company that (still) has a reputation for German engineering and a premium image, and yet they have staggered the other brands nicely. Of course, Skoda and Seat etc are irrelvantin North America.
Dec 23, 2003 (12:25 pm)
Hi Jamie, I just did a quick little thing on Edmunds, and according to Edmunds True Market Value, I got $87,981. It is a 2003 also, so I would think you would be able to negotiate with the dealer. It sounds like a beautiful color combo though! I love the Black Opal over Stone or Grey. Good Luck!
Happy Holidays to all.
#3847 of 24726 Didn't buy the S500
Dec 23, 2003 (8:20 pm)
Thanks for the input - we didn't buy the S500 b/c we looked at a S600, then BMW 745 - then BMW 760..The S500 just didn't seem right for the $90K pricetag. We also looked at Lexus, Jag, Audi today (instead of XMAS shopping). We are loyal BMW fans, but the i-drive/new design just makes the BMW decision a tough one. We still don't know what to do - its between the BMW and MB. The car is my husband's, I have a 2003 Range Rover and we have one of the last 750il's (special order) ever shipped to the US (beautiful car we'll keep - he doesn't want to put miles on it...) Still thinking!! Jamie
#3848 of 24726 Rear Parking Aid
Dec 24, 2003 (9:25 am)
I have to comment on the post [much] earlier about the Rear Parking Aides being unnecessary. I totally disagree. I am on my 3rd vehicle with it and it is the best thing to be added to vehicles since intermittent windshield wipers.