Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Dec 06, 2003 (2:09 pm)
"Those Toyota interiors are all about ease of functionality. No reason to stray from that standard in a Lexus."
I agree, it just doesn't make for anything special in a 60K+ car.
While some are already calling the Lexus concept a derivative design (Automobile Mag) I'll wait to see the actual car when it's shown sometime during 2004. The car being shown now is just a concept and a hint (usually 80 percent of the production car) of what the real thing will look like. Truth be told I think it's going to be real hard to come up with a look that doesn't borrow something from someone because between Jaguar, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all the different themes (sporty, classical, radical-BMW (mixed results), traditional) are all taken to a degree. That said, it doesn't appear that Lexus is continuing their old practices, as the concept is pretty radical for a Lexus.
Thanks for the credit in post #3628. I'm glad you can see that.
Copying seems to only be brought up at this point by those who can't accept the truth about certain Lexus designs up to this point, as no Benz fan mentioned it this time around.
Yeah that is pretty ridiculous for 7-Series' seat and transmission controls to be that complicated. I've never ever had to have any controls "explained" to me in a German car before, ever..until I first sat in and drove the 760Li. I couldn't believe it.
#3637 of 24726 "the truth about Lexus' deisgns"
Dec 06, 2003 (2:18 pm)
My personal opinion here: the current LS's exterior borrows heavily from the last-gen S. But I think that's about it as far as big-time "copying" goes. The IS, ES, GS, SC, RX, GX, LX may not be pretty, but they aren't "copies", imho.
#3638 of 24726 Cadillac Sales - MB soon to be #4 in the U.S.
Dec 07, 2003 (6:12 am)
The November sales report shows Lexus in a clear lead to win out over BMW again this year as the leader in U.S. luxury vehicle sales.
MB is a distant 3rd only a few cars ahead of resurgent Cadillac.
Do you think Cadillac will catch MB this year or next? It's pretty clear MB is never likely to be the leader in the U.S. again.
Dec 07, 2003 (6:53 am)
That's a pretty strong statement re MB. If they improve quality or lower their prices, they could well be number 1 someday.
#3640 of 24726 Just common sense to me
Dec 07, 2003 (10:23 am)
IMHO they are still struggling with quality and don't have the financial flexibility to do the latter - MB profits are what is keeping DCX's head above water.
They've been on a slide for 10 years and there's no signs that it's turning the right way. They'll have to bottom and refocus on real value in a niche to be competitive enough to regain share.
I could be wrong. IBM made a big turnaround from what seemed like an irresversible decline.
I think tht BMW is where they are because they were an 'Apple of the Car Industry'..upscale, highly styled and with a powerful user interface oriented towards driving. Unfortunately between i-drive and the ugly butts they gone DOS and FridayNight Freddy.
Maybe MB will end up the leader in the jewelry end of the market like Rolex is. So-so timepiece, great jewelry.
#3642 of 24726 Fleet Sales
Dec 07, 2003 (3:02 pm)
Good point max!
I wonder though, if MB was really serioius about the lux title here, why couldn't they compete against Cadillac in that market?
It's certainly the case that the lower trim level MBs sold all over Europe as taxi cabs would help them be cost competitive here, then all of the rest of the things that Mercedes a better car in every imagineable way would be a compelling sale.
#3643 of 24726 fleet sales
Dec 07, 2003 (3:13 pm)
Cadillac has really lowered the number of Devilles sold to fleets.
They did this over two years ago, that's why you see the decline from 2001-2002 but a smaller decline from 2002-2003.
Can't believe you guys.
Cadillac is about to have it's best year since 1994 and you are already dissing them.
They are about to overtake MB and you guys are already put a spin on why it is happening.
No respect, I tell ya'.
Oh yeah, and we can certainly take out Deville's fleet sales if BMW takes out Mini sales.
Dec 07, 2003 (3:54 pm)
It is just my opinion that We have made some silly comments on this board in order to make one point or another...(myself certainly included....)
It does seem however that car companies are in the business of selling cars and I don't think it matters to them who they sell them to. The more cars they sell the more money they make and the more people that are introduced to their product the brighter the companies future.
I will guarantee you that if Mercedes could sell taxi's in this country they would...(they sell lots of them in other countries) They sell cars to Armys for use by generals in other countries. They would crack the rental market if they could and of course they make fleet sales when they can.
Bottom line a once great car company has lost it's way, they are over priced, have declining sales and are establishing a rep. for a less then reliable product....They don't offer the luxury or ride of a Lexus or the handling and driving fun of a BMW. They are stuck in the middle.
They will eventually find their way back..
Dec 07, 2003 (5:34 pm)
"Bottom line a once great car company has lost it's way, they are over priced, have declining sales and are establishing a rep. for a less then reliable product....They don't offer the luxury or ride of a Lexus or the handling and driving fun of a BMW. They are stuck in the middle"
Great point. Couldn't agree more !
But, MB fans should have plenty to say on this topic
Fire away, merc1 !