Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#3524 of 24726 Mercedes
Nov 15, 2003 (8:35 am)
I'm really surprised as to how far the pre-owned market has fallen for them. The S-430 which was $14k more than the LS430 when I was cross shopping in 2001 is now worth only $5k more per edmunds. The S-500 that was $23k more is now worth only $11k more. The E-430 4-matic I priced which was $1500 cheaper than the LS430 is now worth $4k less. The dealer retail is equal to the buyouts I would have gotten and in the case of the E-class is lower!
#3525 of 24726 Dollar / Yen and Dollar / Euro might have impact too
Nov 15, 2003 (10:14 am)
The other issue is that the dollar has weakened relative to both the Yen and Euro. This means that it takes more $ to buy a yen or a Euro than it did in 2000.
So by reducing residuals the captive Toyota and MB finance businesses increase the dollars they get over the course of the leases they issue now. They do this to hedge the price of dollars to purchase the yen/euros they need at the right interest rate to return the yen/euros they loaned out to lease or finance the car.
Given the U.S.'s Starfleet-sized trade deficits (which are financed with money borrowed from these same two sources) and our huge forecasted deficits the dollar is likey to stay weak unless we raise interest rates. That won't likely happen until after the next election because of its impact on the housing market and car sales.
As you suggest, I would guess that we'll continue to see these residuals until the interest rates go up.
Nov 15, 2003 (1:33 pm)
Nov 15, 2003 (2:05 pm)
My wife loves it. Now I don't know what I am going to do. It does indeed ride beautifully and is more car like.
Tasillo - only one LS430 at my dealership (a big volume guy) and it was the demo. All of the LS430's at this place are sold out through Nov. 30 so this car is hot. I hope you got your chance to drive one let alone a Euro.
For the Lexus guys on the board - The LS, GX, RX, SC and ES are selling so quickly that it is not easy to deal on them and in some cases even get them.. The LX is more negotiable but is also selling well. The GS and IS are slow.
#3528 of 24726 High demand new LS430s.
Nov 15, 2003 (4:17 pm)
I guess that would have a positive effect on LS400/430 resale value.
Have dealt with a couple of Lexus dealers who have ridiculously high asking prices on their used LS400s.
Augusta lexus had a '97 with 90K miles and was asking $23,900, about choked when he told me.
It was in amazing condition for a '97.
On the other hand I have seen 90K mile '98-99s for sale at 18.9-20.9K.
I have pretty much given up on working with Lexus dealers because of their high asking prices.
Nov 16, 2003 (9:28 pm)
If you're going to compare a Euro LS, you should compare it to a Sport S-Class, otherwise the comparison is not truly of alike cars, and isn't fair. The S-Class in the C&D comparo had ABC on top of the regular "Sport" package. I would just get a sport model, I wouldn't order ABC on a S430, it's too expensive.
BTW, I got a chance to finally see the Phaeton. I saw a rather large car sitting in the VW dealers showroom, so it could only be....
My Prediction: The Phaeton won't make it. VW's sales mentality won't cut it with a 88K (W12 model on the floor) car. The salesman that were present were telling everyone to schedule an appointment to see the car, and wouldn't even open it....even for the older (older than me) people there that looked able to buy such a car. The car itself looks ok, though it might be a little on plain side. The A8 definitely looks a lot better. Most people will either like or hate the stretch, upsized Passat look. VW's dealer body simply isn't ready for this car. If you get a chance check one out and let us know what you think.
Nov 17, 2003 (6:32 am)
VW - amazing that they could go through all that investment and then turn off people at the sale process. They are starting to remind me of Infiniti at its inception with the clouds. The car is off limits to feel and explore but they will at least make you see it instead of the sky.
If you had - say $40k - to plunk down on a car today what would you buy or lease?
Nov 17, 2003 (6:49 am)
I'm curious, were there any brochures available on the Phaeton?
I've mentioned before my girlfriend's terrible experiences at two different VW dealers back when she owned a Passat. So I agree with you, regardless of how good the car I can't see too many people spending that kind of money only to have a poor ownership experience.