Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Nov 09, 2003 (8:32 am)
i know what it feels like to be a fire victim (my wife and i were affected by a fire many many years ago). my heart goes out to all thoses who were affected. i am certainly glad to hear that your parents/friend's family are not harmed.
i never knew that you owned an SL55? did you mean SL500? 2003-model year? what a coincidence: we both drive the same cars! you must be an MB-fan, or appreiate their vechicles alot.
and also, i too have a similar problem to the "by-itself problem" when the caris parked overnight in my garage; the COMMAND CD-ROM mysteriously self ejects itself out of the system. i have called Mercedes and they say they have no idea. i don't understand.
i have finally decided that i am planning on purchasing the new 2005/2006 Mercedes-Benz S-Class if all goes well with the final design of the car (i certainly hope the "Auto-Spies" picture of the "2005 S-Class" is incorrect.)
one of my friends, sent me this e-mail to me, which i thought was quite interesting, and thought i should pass it along to you all (MIND YOU, I DID NOT WRITE THIS)
'The 2004 Mercedes-Benz S500; passport to any destination that you should desire-
what is wrong:
1) BMW 745Li- looks too much like a spaceship from outer space, looks more futuristic than elegance/luxury
2) Lexus LS430- Looks great, excellent quality, but when you park is side-by-side to the German sport-luxury sedans, you (the car) feels "surrounded"
3) Audi A8L- overly-conservative styling; doesn't look that futuristic for a 2004-model year; fit's in quite nicely though
4) Jaguar- could be another "passport", except 1800's design could leaves you wondering when are they going to re-design this?"
5) Infiniti Q45- don't even talk about it.
6) Mercedes-Benz S500- "THE" car YOU want to be seen: driving it, relaxing in it, in it, or simply "to be seen". although it is begining to show its age compared to the rest of the pack, it's still (in his opinion) "simply the best, better than the rest."
Nov 09, 2003 (11:02 am)
Sad to hear of the unfortunate fate that befell your parents and your best friend. Although many of what we own are irreplaceable, the only truly irreplaceable is our life, and thankfully these people are still alive today. That is the miracle. Like you I live in the county of San Diego, and although not evacuated, the fire was only 3 miles away and we were on pins and needles wondering if it would blow our way. Thankfully it didn't. Makes us stand back and reflect on what truly are of importance to us.
Nov 09, 2003 (9:23 pm)
The E55 isn't alone in the horsepower/chassis situation. A whole hose of cars with 400+ hp are going to require some skill to drive, with their traction/stability aids switched off. Naturally the E55 doesn't handle as well as the M5, but some of this "it's scary in the corners" stuff is little on the ridiculous side.
I think the hp peak will be reached within the next couple of years. I also think 500hp is about enough for a sedan, especially the midsize variety. Now a 6000lb Maybach or 5500lb Rolls Phantom almost "needs" that kind of power to get them out of their own way.
" I have a feeling the new A8 won't fair any better resale wise than the old one, in 2005 an A8 with decent miles may be available in the high $30's."
That would be a hell of a car for the money, but I don't think that is going to happen. The new car should do better in resale, we all know it deserves too.
#3465 of 24726 500 hp in a sedan not a 'luxury' issue
Nov 10, 2003 (5:24 am)
Long time no chat. I see you are still active here and always appreciate my thoughtful inputs to this very important niche in the automobile market.
Sorry, for not 'getting it' but isn't this 500 hp thing like having a 1/2 acre swimming pool or 50,000 square foot home?
Looks good on paper, fun to talk about and show off to the oglers, but rather useless.
It would seem to me that real luxury is much more along the line that MB's 4matic step has taken: a luxury car for all conditions. Great everyday road handling with an engine/transmission and occupancy that are well-suited to it's needs and intended usage.
Also, the high hp, MB "Mustang" pony cars like the E55 or S55 can't begin to 'compete dynamically' with cars actually designed to use high horsepower, like a Porsche. I feel they are dangerous. (IMHO).
Nobody I know likes to ride around as a passenger in a sedan with 500 hp while the ageing driver shows off his testosterone reservoir, lack of respect for the environment and scares the youknowhat out of everyone when the vehicle reaches the driver's limits long before it reaches its. (Thanks to the alphabet soup of vehicle save-me technologies, this doesn't cause as many crashes as it used to!)
Nov 10, 2003 (5:50 am)
As always footie, I have to ask whats the point of all that?
An AMG Benz is no more dangerous than a RS6, XJR, M5, Viper, Corvette, Porsche or Ferrari in the hands of someone that doesn't know what they're doing. To suggest so is ridiculous at best. Any car with 500hp represents a certain amount of danger to a novice. Heck a Mustang GT (a mere 200+ hp) is dangerous in the hands of the just-got-their-license 16 year old.
Nov 10, 2003 (6:02 am)
I second that, personally I'd rather see Lexus add AWD to the LS than add another 200hp to a sedan that already does 0-60 in 5.9sec.
Some might want to pay an extra $20k-$50k or whatever for extra cylinders (beyond 8) and hp (beyond 300 or so) in a sedan, but they are few and far between, as evidenced by the BMW 760 vs 745 sales data.
Nov 10, 2003 (6:44 am)
I have to say that with that mindset Lexus is destined to forever produce yawns from anyone wanting some excitement. Would it really be that terrible if Lexus produced a next generation GS to compete with all AMG, M, R and RS sedans of the world? Gee whiz, live a little guys.
Nov 10, 2003 (6:55 am)
Lexus probably should produce something to compete with the AMG/M types. It would enhance the brand image, certainly. But does it matter to that many people? The M3 (including the convertible) accounts for just 7% of 3-series sales, while the M5 accounts for 4% of 5-series sales.
I'm just saying there are other things that would be more widely appreciated, such as AWD or maybe pre-collision (yes, copying MB).
Nov 10, 2003 (7:19 am)
To me a Luxury car is peace and quiet, comfort, and the ability to handle any conditions safely (I agree with you about 4 wheel drive)
I am getting older but I would rather an exciting destination and a comfortable peacefull drive to get to it.
Nov 10, 2003 (8:38 am)
You know what, I agree with all that, but Lexus already has those things (and they do it quite well), minus the awd. I just think it's time for Lexus to liven things up a bit, everyone else has something exciting somewhere in their lineup. What kills me with you guys is that suddenly because I suggested that something more exciting be added, there is this notion that everyone should have a 500hp AMG/M type car. Never said that.
Talk about a brand that appeals to a many due to its depth of product, thats Mercedes. In fact Mercedes has the widest range of products in the luxury market so I'm fully aware of needing to have awd and other practical things, but MB (and others) also understand that these products need to be balanced out by offering something for that discerning few. It doesn't hurt the brand, it only builds it.