Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Nov 03, 2003 (6:52 pm)
Interesting sales chart.
The local newspaper reviews I quoted earlier also noted the slowed LS sales for the 2003 model year, and suggested that as the reason Toyota/Lexus had to make such vast improvement to the '04 model. The review was titled: "Wake-up call". To drive the point home, the reviewer quoted an Acura exec's response on "... why so much high-end content was been made standard on a new model". The reply: "To keep the brand alive"
My opinion on Merc's electrical gremlins not having any noticeable effect on sales is that since the first 4 years of service are covered by Mercedes, new buyers don't have to worry that much. Only those buying 3+ yr old CPO's have to worry about the car's reliability concerns.
I don't subscribe to these mags, but will like to read what the reviews of the high end cars in the SCI and Automotive mags were.
Nov 03, 2003 (7:12 pm)
MotownUSA, yes, the Aston Martin V12 is based on two Ford V8 blocks bolted together end to end with, naturally a longer crankshaft. This is not a new idea and has been used for year by Cummins Engines (the 855 becomse the 1710), Detroit Diesel (the 6V71 becomes the 12V71 found in most shrimp boats), etc. In no way though is the Aston Martin using the Ford engine internals, just the bare block architechture.
Nov 03, 2003 (9:32 pm)
Thats a Lamborghini Murcielago prepared for racing! That will be little much on the streets don't you think? Speaking of which, Auto, Motor und Sport TV had a three-way shootout tonight. They tested the Enzo, Carrera GT and the Gallardo. Such an awesome group of cars. The Carrera GT was truly the star of the show.
Sales. I'm not sure why certain publications make so much out of a sales decline of a car (LS430) that was introduced back in 2001. The S-Class had a similar slide in 2002 before the facelifted 03' model came out. It happens to every car over it's production cycle. Intro=hot sales, few years production = sales drop, refresh = sales gain, then new model and cycle repeats. This in no way means the end of Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi or anyone else. The only time this would spell trouble is if the car in question is new and flops, like the Q45 or M45, then you have a true "situation" on your hands. That combined with no new product would spell the end of a luxury brand, but that isn't even the case with Infiniti. A new Q and M are on the way it seems.
I will say the Europeans are a little better with keeping the variants coming over time to keep a model interesting. Seeing as how Mercedes now sells a lot of 4Matic S-Classes and VW twins have awd, I expect the next LS and even XJ to offer awd.
Acura's situation is somewhat different as they don't truly have a flagship car. The new TL makes the RL obsolete, to put it mildly.
They've adjusted to not selling many RLs.
Actually it's two Ford Duratec V6s not V8s.
#3391 of 24726 up and down sales
Nov 04, 2003 (4:53 am)
Sales don't automatically go down several years after a restyle or refresh.
Sometimes word of mouth or option bundling, incentives etc. Cause rises in production.
Chevy Impala is selling double what it was in 2000.
Chevy Tahoe is up over 2000 also.
It is intersting that the LS series has seen very low price increases over the last several years.
Nov 04, 2003 (5:31 am)
Well nothing is automatic, but that is what usually happens in this market. Incentives can change sales of a car like an Impala from month to month dramatically and very easy. Not the same market.
Nov 04, 2003 (5:38 am)
I agree with Merc1 here. There is a natural cycle for sales volumes for any given model, unless the manufacturer purposely limits supply. Rather than look at how individual models are doing year to year, it is better to look at whether the overall brand is gaining or losing share within its segment (i.e., luxury or mainstream segment), since the overall brand will have models at varying parts of their lifecycles.
#3395 of 24726 Incentives to prop up sales
Nov 04, 2003 (5:59 am)
I agree with the above posts that it's customary for models to decline in sales as they age and are no longer the "hot" new thing. The reference to Impala and Tahoe sales being stronger in 2003 than in '00/'01 is diluted because of the ridiculous incentives being offered to move the iron. When a manufacturer is offering rebates and incentives than enable you to buy a vehicle for 20-30% off of the sticker, they're really cannibalizing the value of the earlier models. A loaded 2000 Tahoe LT 4wd would have had a sticker of about 42k, if you were a good negotiator, you'd have bought the truck for about 37k. When you can buy a '03 with a sticker of 44k for 34-35k, that further impacts the resale value of the previous model years. It also reduces the residual values of lease vehicles, resulting in higher monthly cost.
I'm very glad that most high end marques have avoided the incentive game, especially the factory to consumer type. That and the limited supply (no fleet sales to Hertz, Avis) accounts for the considerably better resale values of not only the high-end cars, but also the mainstream products like the Honda Accord that avoid propping up their sales figures.
#3396 of 24726 hidden price increases
Nov 04, 2003 (8:45 am)
Gm's ridiculous incentives are reflective in their MSRP's.
Did you guys know that GM had 20 price increases last year!!!!
Did you know that the Impala's MSRP has gone up over $1000 every year.
While the Lexus LS's has gone up about $500.
Yes GM has been offfering 3-4K incentives but my 25.5K 2001 Impala LS now costs almost 29K!!!
Hardly a bargain.
You would have been hard pressed to get a 2000 Tahoe for much off of MSRP.
Now 7-8K off is not uncommon.
Luckily the high end market has avoided this by offering value and superior build quality.
#3397 of 24726 oh yeah...
Nov 04, 2003 (8:50 am)
And I forgot to mention the decontenting that is going on at GM right now.
Lets see. We will raise the price and make Onstar optional, and the side airbag. We'll take the gearshift indicator off the console, trunk net, floor mats, coin holder, etc. etc.