Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Oct 15, 2003 (6:54 pm)
Let me know what pricepoints you get on the LX470. I'm also buying or leasing at the end of the year or in January. If you are still shopping then I'll let you know prices I am getting as well. In the meantime check prices and lease deals at LexusUS.com to keep your dealer honest on prices he gives you. It's a great suv with an LS430 like ride if you can believe a truck that big can ride so gracefully. The TLC may look like it but it lacks the LX refinement.
By the way that site is being changed to fleetUS.com (I believe) and will also do deals on MB, BMW, Audi, Porsche and others in the very near future. So if you are shopping the other brands it is worth a check to keep your dealer honest.
Lenscap - great posts as always. So the Celsior is a Lexus afterall. Believe me, some people around here will still not accept that. One question though - did Toyota have the v-12 Crown prior to 1990 or was it also introduced at the time Lexus was born. That v-12 has always been the rumored upscale engine for the LS. But the hybrid technology may blow it away. As well I believe the sports car in the link you posted is that V-10 super car that they are coming out with supposedly in step with the next GS.
HPX - Super looking vehicle. I saw HPX and the Infiniti at the NY auto show and people were ga-ga over the HPX. It is far more sleek and lower to the ground than the Infiniti and much better looking.
Syswei - thanks for the links.
#3266 of 24723 lenscap
Oct 15, 2003 (7:29 pm)
I had only looked at the front of the car on your link and didn't realize they give you an all around look. Obviously that is a 4 door car so I was wrong aboth the supercar and it may well be the next GS. I like it. If they are changing styles to a more sporty athletic look like that I'm quite interested to see what the next LS will look like.
I haven't looked at the GS board in a while. You should post it there and see the reaction there unless you already did.
Oct 15, 2003 (8:22 pm)
I don't get the platform sharing bashing at all. It results in better cars, not worse ones, because it allows manufacturers to truly invest money where it makes the most difference. The tuning process turns shared-platform cars into utterly different cars anyhow.
On the Bentley Conti, good luck, 'cause they're sold out well into '05 at this point. It seems to be the only one of the recently introduced supercars that is meeting/exceeding expectations. Awesome car, I saw it at the intro to the US market last year (or perhaps early this year? I forgot) in LA, and the interior is out of this world.
#3268 of 24723 Mercedes resale
Oct 15, 2003 (8:40 pm)
Saw this on the resale forum (post #14968) here at Edmunds, as stated by Terry, the resident oracle on that forum:
Terry is a car salesman, and a darn good one too. Knows the market like the back of his hand. So I'd trust his statement here.
"Audi's are great vehicles, but that market dwindles when you ad miles to the equation, but some vehicles like Subaru's and Honda's the buyers go blind on the miles, if they are clean ... remember I don't make the market, I just live it ..l.o.l.... try selling a 01 MB S430 with 35/40k, it's like selling Chicken Pox ..
Wow ! What would Boo20 say about the part on the S430 ?. I guess there ain't a waiting list for S-class afterall since they cannot seem to give them away after a couple of years of use, lol !
#3269 of 24723 lenscap
Oct 15, 2003 (9:44 pm)
There is nothing wrong with creating a new brand, it just won't have the draw with some people who like all the heritage, image stuff. It was the brilliant move on the part of Toyota because nobody here would be paying LS430, GS, and SC prices for "Toyotas" in this country. They had no choice but to come up with a fictional name that they had to go to court to keep because it belonged to someone else.
The ES300 started life as a Camry, and the IS300 is just a Toyota with a "L" on it for the U.S. market. The first generation ES, the ES250 was a Camry with a different grille and nothing more. A teacher of mine had one and it was about the worse rebadge job I'd seen outside of GM. How in the world could anyone think that the first generation ES250 was truly a seperate car is beyond everything automotive. The GS, LS and SC may have been purpose built as higher end cars, but they are still marketed as Toyotas in Japan...they're not Lexuses. These cars are just badged as Lexuses for U.S. consumption, for in Japan they are just upmarket Toyotas. There is no "Lexus" nameplate in Japan, yet.
My point in bringing this up was that some here have tried to say that Mercedes' and Maybach's relationship is the same thing and it isn't.
Oct 15, 2003 (10:35 pm)
OK, let's consider this scenario:
Toyota Corp, a huge conglomerate based out of Japan, decides to expand their base into the luxury market. Decide on their intended target segments, and make elaborate and very strategic plans on what the future will be for this new branding. Then go out and execute flawlessly. Trouble is Toyota's brand in Japan is very strong, and hence cannot be diluted. Toyota's brand in the biggest car market, the USA, is that of a stodgy but reliable means of transportation. Nothing fancy nor luxurious about Toyota. So how about a new brand name they can build upon leveraging Toyota's strengths - reliability and value; package this with great luxury amenities, solid build quality and an exceptional customer service organization ? All recipes for success if executed flawlessly. Lexus begins life in the US. Platforms are shared to contain cost and push the cars out quickly. The Camry is rebadged as the entry level ES250. But they build from scratch the LS, GS and SC. Upmarket these within Japan and Asia as Toyota cos that's what the public out there identify with as a strong brand. Later, Toyota adds in the LX as a rebadged LC with a few frills and nicer interior amenities and more cushy ride. The RX, IS and GX come merrily along later.
Now fast forward 15 years, and the home market has had plenty of time to adjust to Toyota's other brand - Lexus. And this baby has come of age and bested the best of the best at what they do best. The foundation for the future has been built from ground up. Now it is necessary to let this grown up loose to chart its own future.
If I were Merc and BMW I'd be real worried about a *free-er* Lexus from the clutches of Toyota. Lexus has a deep pocket, a worldwide brand awareness, excellent market share and still growing, and now its own INDEPENDENCE to embark on its own future. Look out !
And it all begins in the Summer of 2005 !!!
Oct 15, 2003 (10:55 pm)
I don't think anyone has disputed that as being exactly what they did. The only part that isn't totally accurate is the besting the best at what they do best. Not quite true, otherwise Lexus would have run Mercedes, BMW and others out of the market. Nobody bests the best at everything. Not even Lexus.
#3272 of 24723 resale/bluestar1
Oct 16, 2003 (3:49 am)
I think when it comes to used luxury cars buyers almost expect low miles.
As if the previous owner had another car to drive.
In many cases this is true.
I have spent a lot of time the last month looking at LS 400s on ebay and there are quite a few cars that have very low miles.
Some that are averaging 7500 miles a year.
And the occasional 5500 mile per year car.
I am talking about 14 year old LS 400's that have
65-80K miles on them.
They usually sell above nada black book.
#3273 of 24723 idrive re apple
Oct 16, 2003 (7:46 am)
tomshardware.com, endian.net, anandtech.com are some sites that (for intel/amd, don't know about apple) will spell out future product roadmaps
#3274 of 24723 China production.........
Oct 16, 2003 (11:05 am)
I've taken a little heat here for suggesting that mercedes has damaged it's name brand for several reasons. One of the reasons that I stated was that DMX is now building MB's in china. Well, to my horror I read in todays AutomotiveNews that BMW is building 3's in china for sale in china and that they will also produce 5's there.
Oops!! I guess it's a global community and a great car can come from south carolina, south africa or ........gulp, china.