Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Oct 08, 2003 (10:06 am)
JD Power today announced the results of their 2003 APEAL Awards and Lexus finished on top in a few categories. For those that don't know, the study measures "owners' delight with the design, content, layout and performance" of their new vehicles.
Lexus won several awards including the #1 nameplate (Porsche was #2 and BMW #3) and the LS 430 was the highest ranked premium luxury car (Mercedes SL was #2 and BMW 7 Series #3).
#3023 of 24726 APEAL study
Oct 08, 2003 (1:32 pm)
The study lenscap mentionned "is based on responses from 102,975 new-vehicle owners. The study, now in its eighth year, is based on eight specific categories of vehicle performance and design that identify what consumers like and dislike about their new vehicles during the first 90 days of ownership. The areas are: engine/transmission; ride, handling and braking; comfort/convenience; seats; cockpit/instrument panel; heating, ventilation and cooling; sound system; and styling/exterior."
Notice that quality/reliability is NOT included, but Lexus still places first both as an overall nameplate and in the luxury sedan category.
To see the details, go to http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/releases/index.asp?catid=1, click "Lexus" and then click one of the blue icons under "awardees" or "press release".
#3024 of 24726 SL is fairly hot, but so too are some others
Oct 08, 2003 (1:42 pm)
...including some mainstream models. Today's Wall Street Journal published data on dealers' days supply (i.e., days worth of cars on the lot):
"Honda Pilot 9
Mini Cooper 10
Toyota Sienna 11
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class 12
Lexus RX 330 12
Honda CR-V 13
Acura TSX 14
Acura MDX 15
Honda Odyssey 15
Nissan Quest 16
Audi A8/S8* 16
For the month of September. Rankings are based on the number of days vehicles stayed in stock at about 3,000 dealerships around the country, starting with the vehicle that moved the fastest. Models on sale four months or less, or no longer in production, are excluded.
Source: Power Information Network LLC, an affiliate of J.D. Power & Associates"
Oct 08, 2003 (1:52 pm)
About JDP's long-term reliability studies, I think you're the one that is "blindly" assuming that the study doesn't cover items that you mentionned, such as transmissions. JDP's release on the VDS says "The 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 55,000 original owners of 2000 model-year cars and light trucks. The study covers 147 specific problem symptoms grouped into nine major vehicle systems."
147 potential problem areas...what makes you "blindly assume" that transmissions are not included? What makes you think that a company that (1) was founded in 1968 and (2) has done the VDS since 1990 and (3) that gets feedback from the auto companies that pay big bucks for its research, feedback that presumably includes ideas for what questions might be included in the standard surveys...
...somehow would be stupid enough not to ask about transmission problems?
Oct 08, 2003 (2:19 pm)
Visit your local MB dealer. Just try to get a NEW SL500. Not a 2003 model that's used. See if you can pick one off the lot in the same way I could get an SC today. You might be able to do it for an SL55 as these cars are priced in the stratosphere and the market for them is not as large.
The market has indeed spoken. MB, at a higher price point and with worse reliability, has waiting lists for some of their cars.
Lexus does not.
That, in itself, should tell you something about the public's perception of prestige and desirability.
Oct 08, 2003 (2:33 pm)
As I've said before, MB does indeed offer higher prestige, but this isn't exactly Lexus' fault, as it is rather hard to build prestige and brand equity in a 14-year span.
As for the SL, I fully believe that some dealers have 0 stock...but some must have more than 12 days worth, so that the mean works out to 12. And it does say SL Class, so the S55 would be included. I highly doubt that used vehicles are included, but you can check the the PR department at JDP if you want.
If you still doubt the numbers, I guess it is your choice to ignore hard data gathered from a large sample of dealers by an independent and (presumably) unbiased source. It is your choice to ignore facts that aren't in agreement with your preconcieved view of the world.
Oct 08, 2003 (4:14 pm)
I think you missed my point. I'm not personally sensitive to your comments about Lexus being aimed at the geriatric crowd. I don't own one and probably never will. It's just my impression that you, as a Mercedes advocate, are the kettle calling the pot black in this case. I see no difference whatsover in the S class vs. LS buyer demographic - at least age wise. And Mercedes dealers make no apologies to a "middle age" guy like me when they indicate they are going after a more conservative (i.e. older)buyer than BMW.
#3029 of 24726 waiting lists
Oct 08, 2003 (5:06 pm)
That's bad business in my book. It means you didn't properly anticipate demand or you have a production problem and couldn't manufacture the intended supply. Either one is a mistake. Since only a small percentage of customers put themselves on waiting list with an intent to wait for long (virtually all go elsewhere either initially or a month or so later) it means you most likely lost a customer. That is not something to be proud of.
If the SL has a 12 day supply - how does it have a waiting list? Shouldn't a waiting list mean a negative figure of some sort??