Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#2965 of 24726 fantastic lease pricing on '03 S430?
Oct 04, 2003 (8:02 pm)
my wife has a Lexus GX470, and I have a '02 S430, and a '03 SL55 AMG. we love our cars, but my wife wants an S-Class too. i tried to convince her to get a BMW or Audi, but she's stuck to the S430. she loves the S-Class.
i am thinking about surprising her on her birthday (comming soon in mid-November); having the car out on the driveway. alas; she loves good deals, and won't be happy if i tell her how much i actually paid for it. so, i am wondering if any of you who have car-shopped for an S-Class, (OR BMW 745i) found a REALLY good price if i lease? I live in San Diego, California. this morning, i found an ad in the newspaper from Hoehn Motors: 2003 NEW Mercedes S430. $899/month, $4,671 due at lease signing. nicely equiped (does that mean it's stripped?). 5 to choose from. Hohen Motors, Car Country Carlsbad.
i don't know if that's a good deal.
if any of you live in S. California and know of a really good deal on a new '03 S430, please tell.
#2966 of 24726 Front wheel drive
Oct 04, 2003 (10:28 pm)
bz4: in my mind the presence of front wheel drive on the Acura is an argument FOR and not against it compared to the Lexus. As I want AWD in my winter car the Lexus is out (even if liked everything else about it--which I don't). The Acura is at least a reasonable second choice by virtue of its FWD, aesthetics and overall value for the money. If I couldn't afford an MB I would definately go with Acura rather than Lexus. When we are talking about cars costing over 60 K value isn't really in the equation at all. Nobody buys an LS430 or S class because of "value". They are just not "worth" it on an incremental cost basis. If you can comfortably afford these cars then cost should be considered essentially to be a 'burnt offering.'
i_drive: I'm in the market for an '04 S class. Unfortunately there are plenty of unsold '03s laying around in dealer inventories (here in the midwest) including AWD models. Dealers are anxious to move these out before the '04s come out at the end of October so I'm certain you can get a great deal on them in the next few weeks. I saw an S430 with MSRP of 78 K on which you could probably have picked up at least a 5 K discount. That's a pretty good deal on this incredible car. Go for it.
Unfortunately for me this probably means no deals off list price for the '04s. Maybe I'll go for one of the leftover 03s myself.
#2967 of 24726 boo200
Oct 05, 2003 (5:12 am)
I forget about you guys who live in the snowbelt.
Here in SC, the only advantage to FWD is extra interior space.
AWD and four wheel drive are just things that decrease gas mileage and hurt ride quality.
Oct 05, 2003 (5:42 am)
You said "When we are talking about cars costing over 60 K value isn't really in the equation at all." Well, this might be true for SOME buyers, but I hardly believe that its true for all buyers in that price range. If an extra 10-20-30k doesn't matter to someone who has already decided to purchase a 60k+ car, why does MB sell any S430s at all?...why don't all the S buyers get the S500 (or higher)? Why does BMW sell alot of 745s? Why don't all the BMW buyers get the 760?
Oct 05, 2003 (5:50 am)
You said that ljflx's comparing an LS430's "euro" option to the base Mercedes S "isn't a fair comparision"...even though, as he pointed out, the "euro" is FREE to any LS buyer who cares for it.
Well, if you are into "fair" comparisons, can you see that fairness is why I brought up the S280? Someone was trying to compare performance of the S500 to the LS430, and my point is that its unfair to compare the LS performance to a car that costs 46% more. It isn't even that fair to compare the LS to the S430, since the S430 costs 31% more (though the LS nonetheless beats at 0-60 and in HP and torque). I was saying that if MB sold the S280 in the US, it might (based on UK price differentials between the S430 and S280) cost the same as the LS430. And THAT would be a "fair comparison" (to use your words).
Oct 05, 2003 (5:58 am)
You asked "where can I get a LS430 for just over 40K". I don't know either. Maybe you should read posts more carefully if you are going to reply to them, because I never suggested anything less than 55K for an LS.
#2971 of 24726 automobile magazine
Oct 05, 2003 (6:19 am)
They named the BMW 7-series "2003 All-Star Luxury Car Over $40,000". In 2002 it was the LS430. In 2001 it was the LS 430.
There are probably some MB fans who are thinking, "if they didn't pick the S, Automobile Magazine's criteria must be flawed". Hardly. It just means that their criteria are DIFFERENT from yours, not necessarily "right" or "wrong".
I have always said that Lexus tilts toward luxury over sport. ljflx has said that in his opinion, the LS with euro suspension "easily outhandles" the base S. But we also know that Lexus doesn't do anything like the S55 or S600. So I think is fair to say the the LS (base) starts more on the luxury side of the spectrum and MB (S55) can be had more on the sport side, and that there might be some overlap in the middle (LS euro vs S base).
If an individual buyer's definition of the ideal car is tilted more toward luxury and less toward sport, he can get an LS non-euro and it can be "best" FOR HIM. If his definition of the ideal car is more sporty, he can get an MB sport edition or S55 or BMW or whatever, and it can be "best" FOR HIM. Trying to espouse that either the S or LS is objectively better for EVERYONE is just plain silly.
Oct 05, 2003 (10:37 am)
"If an individual buyer's definition of the ideal car is tilted more toward luxury and less toward sport, he can get an LS non-euro and it can be "best" FOR HIM. If his definition of the ideal car is more sporty, he can get an MB sport edition or S55 or BMW or whatever, and it can be "best" FOR HIM. Trying to espouse that either the S or LS is objectively better for EVERYONE is just plain silly."
syswei: very well put indeed !
At the very least, your point here avoids the subjective considerations of looks and aestethics that are often touted here when doing LS_vs_S_vs_7 comparos. I certainly don't see anyone arguing against this position that syswei articulated (eloquently, imo) above here.
Oct 05, 2003 (1:27 pm)
I don't remember talking about 6 Cylinder MB cars..What I did take issue with is comparing a LS430 to an E Class. I'll leave that argument alone for the moment.
The hyperbole on the part of the MB enthusiasts on this board is amazing. "Lexus is no comparison for the S class" Really? If the LS was SOO inferior then no one would buy one! What you MB guys keep missing is that that None of these cars are made for heavy performance driving. The average buyer of a LS is a 57 yr old Executive making $125K + a year. (Source Lexus Website) We're hardly the Indy Car Racing Group. None of these cars whether it be a LS, or S class can beat the true Performance Lux cars out there, such as the M5 or XJR.
As of yet, all this bashing about the Lexus lacking a "Solid" ride is purely Subjective. I always have pointed to Objective stats to point out that Lexus is at parity in nearly all areas.
The only thing MB loyalists can complain about is the overly Smooth ride (Is that a bad thing?) and bland design. Basically, it's Snobbery. You guys are like the Old Gentlemen's Club thumbing your nose at the younger generation.
I paid $67K for my LS430, and $51k back in 1992, for my 92 LS400..If I really wanted a S class, like any LS owner, I could afford one. Like my fellow LS owners out there, we've gladly taken the $10k + we've saved and laughed to the bank!
We've gotten a car that more reliable than anything on the road. Oh! you Benz loyalists moan, "The LS430 is SO unoriginal will get SMOKED by the S Class" The LS has a potent V-8 and drivetrain that will keep at or near parity with it's competitors. As for Originality, look at the newest Lexus designs. I'd say they are pretty original. Keep in Mind Lexus is only a 13 yr old company. You'd ought to give them credit for completely shaking up the Lux car industry. Now that Toyota has given Lexus their own identity in Japan, we ought to see them carve ought their identity in the coming years. As for now, I think I'll take my $10K and superior ownership experience thank you very much.
With Lexus you get superb customer service and one hell of a car..These performance characteristics mean nothing on the Real road. What % of MB, BMW, or Lexus owner race their cars? I'd say the majority of them are primarily commuter cars, and are seldom raced. Who wants to debate that?
Oct 05, 2003 (3:23 pm)
There are many things you said that I disagree with but let me focus on just one point you made that is easily refuted. Consider your contention that "You guys are like the Old Gentlemen's Club thumbing your nose at the younger generation."
Very interesting. Let's look at the demographics of the average LS vs S class buyer (source is MS Carpoint): The average age of an LS430 buyer is 64. The average age of an S class buyer is 58. So it seems to me that it is the older Lexus owners who are thumbing their noses at the younger MB buyers. Now I wouldn't make a big deal out of this and claim that this means anything other than refuting your contention that buying an MB as opposed to buying a Lexus is a manifestation of an older demographic.
Also you said: "I paid $67K for my LS430, and $51k back in 1992, for my 92 LS400..If I really wanted a S class, like any LS owner, I could afford one. Like my fellow LS owners out there, we've gladly taken the $10k + we've saved and laughed to the bank!"
I'm sure you could afford either one. However, once again, lets look at the demograhics here (again, MS Carpoint is the source): The average yearly income of an LS buyer is 186,000. The average yearly income of an S class buyer is 284,000. At 90 K an S class is 50% of a typical Lexus buyers yearly income. I'm sure that many people in this group have settled for the Lexus because they couldn't afford the more expensive MB. Another way to look at it is that, although if you can afford an S class you can afford an LS, the opposite is not necessarily true.