Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#2956 of 24726 The never ending debate rages on.............
Oct 04, 2003 (11:56 am)
Those 2000 03' E-Classes that were bought back because the new DVD-based Nav system couldn't be retro-fitted, not because those 2000 E320s and E500s were lemons. I think they handled the problem in the best way possible.
Why do you insist on comparing the LS430's so-called "Euro" option to the base Mercedes S-Class when Mercedes has a "Sport" package of their own designed to improve handling/braking etc? That isn't a fair comparision. If you compare the Sport versions of each car you'll find that the S is the more capable road car, at least until 04's models are tested.
I still think you're promoting a double standard when it comes to magazines, because one minute their right on the money and they next minute they don't have a clue. BTW, there is no "hard" road feel in a BMW 7-Series or S-Class, they ride smoothly too, difference is you can still tell what the car is doing, unlike the LS430. You're making it sound like the 7-Series rides hard or something and it doesn't. And yes I have driven both the 745i and 760Li, the V12 extensively.
Switching gears here a little. I don't know if you've ever been to one of BMW's Susan G Komen charity events? Its the best way to experience their cars without paying for their other driving programs. I spent the entire afternoon a few weeks ago driving the Z4, 330i, 745i, 760Li and 540i. Man what fun it was! There weren't many people on this particular day (a Friday) so I got to spend some real quality time with the 7-Series, especially the 760Li. What a car, turbine smooth and deceptively fast. The writers are right about I-drive. Get this, even the BMW reps warned not to try and use it while driving. Well being who I am I did so anyway. I honestly couldn't do anything with it more than adjusting the radio and air conditioning, and I'm not afraid of "tech" like a lot of people are, but I feel the need to shake a few BMW engineers for this overcomplication. The best thing I found out, is to simply use the voice command. We've talked about the styling before and its still ugly to me. That trunk lid is just unacceptable. I got to race a guy in the 760Li when I first took the 745i out, the V12 needs lots of space to show it's superiority as we found out it doesn't really start pulling hard until you're really "speeding". Still this is a direct contrast to the previous 740i/750iL relationship because when I drove those two cars the 750iL didn't seem any faster than the 740i, just a lot heavier.
Why all the what if scenarios? Mercedes isn't going to sell at 6-cylinder S-Class here again, so whats the point? At least not until they new direct injection (read: more power) V6's come out, even if they do it then I'll be shocked. Boo20 spoke about solidity not reliability, two very different things. You really hold CR and JDP as the end-all bible reguarding everything concerning the automobile, even things they can't measure...amazing as no one said anything about reliability. BTW, where can I get a LS430 for just over 40K? Since we're using Automobile Magazine...did you see what they said about the 04' LS?
"Lexus continues to portray this car as a competitor to the S-Class and 7-Series, but the LS430 actually follows the same archly conservative formula that once made Cadillac and Lincoln the big dogs in this class. The LS430 is still the best car in the world to own. However the luxury here is simply that you never think about driving the LS430. This is the ultimate in consumer goods, not the ultimate in luxury goods."
Wow, exactly what European car fans have been saying all along. The LS is the worlds greatest appliance, reliable, but boring and totally uninspiring, with nothing for a "driver" to appreciate. I guess they're wrong about this right?
Oct 04, 2003 (2:23 pm)
Why? It's simple - the cost of the euro is $0! So if you want the sportier handling you can have it for less than a penny. That is why I compare it.
As for magazines - I said for a long time now - the singular car stories are worth it and provide valuable info - at times. The comparos are worthless because mag drivers have their favorite brands and find it hard to choose against them (most favor BMW until Porsche or some higher performance brand comes in - thus I can safely predict the results of comparo tests for the next 25 years even though such cars are not yet made. Do you have any doubt of who will win if the 2025 LS is compared with the 2025 7 series - care to make a wager? I'll take the 7.) and mag drivers come in heavily biased toward handling and performance and not the balance of a car that a high majority of the buying public is looking for. They also don't care about price or reliability. Plus they think customer satisfaction is 90% determined by how a car handles a sharp turn or drives at 100mph+. If they were right the manufacturers would make nothing but performance cars. It's obvious from the handful of performance cars out there that they are wrong.
#2958 of 24726 Reliability
Oct 04, 2003 (2:35 pm)
By the way if I wanted a decent looking car that was reliable I would choose Acura over Lexus any day of the week. Nearly as reliable and their cars look like their designers really care about the looks of the vehicle.
Oct 04, 2003 (2:39 pm)
I went from Acura (great cars, great reliability) to Lexus. Reasons - Lexi are made better, ride better, ownership experience is better and customer service is untouchable). No way do I go back to Acura unless financial concerns cause me to or they match Lexus standards.
Oct 04, 2003 (2:43 pm)
Like ljflx I too owned Acura before Lexus, two of the former to be exact. Unless their styling improves considerably, even though they are a relative value, no way I'd go back to one or take one over the Lexus. I do not think the upscale Honda even belongs on this board.
#2961 of 24726 carnaught
Oct 04, 2003 (2:48 pm)
And you both the e and the LS if I remember correctly. Lex and MB are at the top for me. Acura is great but they are not in this league.
Oct 04, 2003 (2:50 pm)
10-4 good buddy.
Oct 04, 2003 (3:04 pm)
Did you ever go to that MB event that was a $750 fee or something like that?
By the way that I-drive had disaster written all over it before the car ever made it to the showroom.
#2964 of 24726 boo20
Oct 04, 2003 (3:31 pm)
Acuras are FWD. Can't handle high hp (Acura TL trans woes are legendary).
LS400 is superior to any Acura built at this time.
#2965 of 24726 fantastic lease pricing on '03 S430?
Oct 04, 2003 (8:02 pm)
my wife has a Lexus GX470, and I have a '02 S430, and a '03 SL55 AMG. we love our cars, but my wife wants an S-Class too. i tried to convince her to get a BMW or Audi, but she's stuck to the S430. she loves the S-Class.
i am thinking about surprising her on her birthday (comming soon in mid-November); having the car out on the driveway. alas; she loves good deals, and won't be happy if i tell her how much i actually paid for it. so, i am wondering if any of you who have car-shopped for an S-Class, (OR BMW 745i) found a REALLY good price if i lease? I live in San Diego, California. this morning, i found an ad in the newspaper from Hoehn Motors: 2003 NEW Mercedes S430. $899/month, $4,671 due at lease signing. nicely equiped (does that mean it's stripped?). 5 to choose from. Hohen Motors, Car Country Carlsbad.
i don't know if that's a good deal.
if any of you live in S. California and know of a really good deal on a new '03 S430, please tell.