Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#2472 of 24723 libertycat
Jul 17, 2003 (10:37 pm)
You've proven to me that you aren't bringing any facts to the table and if you really believe something like that there is nothing more for us to debate. Do you see that even some of the Q45 supporters don't even agree with some of your out-there rhetoric? Read some of DonFenn's posts. Much more level.
You stated: "I also think that a nice car is not always determined by a popularity contest, ... nor
does it mean that a slow seller is a bad car."
I agree completely. There are few "good" cars that for some reason or another weren't very popular: Volvo C70, Audi A8, BMW 8-Series and the current Q45. I think that Infiniti really botched the current Q45 chances with the previous Q45 or "Q41" as it should have been called. Now that was a car that went backwards in every way compared to the original Q. The 1997 Q was slower, smaller, worse looking, less powerful, and on top of all that I think it was more expensive. That in itself took the Q45 nameplate out of the market, and it'll probably take 2 full redesigns to correct that, provided that those 2 redesigns are awesome cars.
#2473 of 24723 ugly as sin
Jul 18, 2003 (3:06 am)
The Q45 could be the greatest car in the world it is ugly as sin! In Japan this is the Nissan Cima, not even the top of the range! The nissan President (first generation Q45) still leads the line. In my humble opinion this car is no competition for the new XJ or 7series.
Jul 18, 2003 (6:53 am)
exactly. Bring in Nissan President! Just make it larger that the current Q45 and call Q56 (and don't forget to slap on high pressure bi-turbo on it, please).
Don, why do you think that only people in auto industry have sound judgement? If it were true, names such Cord & Pakkard would still exist along with Rolls Royce and Maybach, Chrysler wouldn't be silent in Daimler-Chrysler, and there wouldn't be an avalanche of bland, boring and sometimes plain idiotic cars from GM, Aztek being a crown to them all. I personally always felt, that new ideas, new people, new influences must have a chance. Otherwise it will be a stiff cast society, like in some oriental country 2000 years ago. Who told you that they are untoucheable royalty? Like in any business, they have more dead wood and ballast among them, than healthy young sprouts; and the companies are being mismanaged all right, producing not what they should and could, but just something. Following your logic, people like the same Ghosh, or Zora Arkus-Duntov or many other would never get a job - 'cuz they are not form "the world's auto industry".
P.S. I was in charge for logistic part of ALL deliveries of steel to VW mexico and Brazil for 4 years, if it will help you to accept my opinion.
Jul 18, 2003 (12:06 pm)
fsv, I was just seeing if you were serious or joking when you offered your expertise to the automobile industry. It seemed just a bit over the top. So, arranging steel deliveries to a Mexican and Brazilian VW plants makes you a automotive style expert?
Jul 18, 2003 (12:46 pm)
I never said, that I base my judgement on my previous profession. I said, it is perception of style, time and common sence. Also, a car is always more than style, it is a not finalized sum of constantly changin' variables. Regardless of occupation - why not? I'd say industry background here is more of a disadvantage - exactly 'cuz of it you find Toyota, Honda - pretty much everybody sending their design guys out to art exibitions, furniture show rooms, etc. - trying to find what's appealing to the targeted market group, what's trendy, what's cool OUTSIDE OF THE INDUSTRY. Though, in my opinion, as result even worse thing is happenig through that - young creative talents are being used for fact collection to be further on digested by corporative burocratic mashine - fruits of that - Lex IS300 is the proof, how you can flop doing that - exactly because it is the same approuch GM was using trying to build their car, making something for everybody - and, where is GM now? Though Toyota so far is doing not so bad with X-Box and rest of japanese young crowd cars they don't sell here yet.
To be able to offer something, one must have drive, it's own perception of the world and style, certain coolness and know the way to make people attracted to this look at the things around them translated into style of a particular car created for the particular purpose. There are few people in the industry - same Ghosh I named too often, Ferdinand Piech, may be Yakokka (hell, forgot how to spell his name) Lutz, though less so, May.
Some of you posts - like knowing the most recent sales numbers, mentioning "my sources in Infiniti", etc., make me think you that are an insider, or a dealer - am I correct? This comes from general observation that guys driving a Q45 normally have better things to do than to go through Autonews and rest of industry and non industry periodics to fish up some facts...
Jul 18, 2003 (1:19 pm)
To be candid, I have friends in the organization. These folks attend meetings and product planning sessions. The sales figures are from some of these sources that keep me in the loop. There is also a Nissan/Infiniti site that offers up the sales figures.
Jul 18, 2003 (1:30 pm)
If I am not wrong, Nissan has a design center in La Jolla, California - are they from there?
So, you still don't give me the credit of having correct opinion on a car's design/sales success?