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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2435 of 2473

#24337 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:35 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:12 pm)
Accruals is where much of book cooking is done. A company that has supposedly nearly 9% sales growth faces 13% drop in cash flow and nearly 9% liquid asset decline, and that does't make you suspicious? On top of the company re-marking derivative market asset, presumably to make balance book look better. Exactly how does 8.8% lease/finance contract increase translates to 19%-29% increase in leased-product "asset" in the books? I will tell you how, massive increase in lease to finance ratio and very very sweetened lease deals.
 
The Financial Services segment continued to grow
profitably in 2006, again making an important contribution
to the overall performance of the BMW
Group.
 
BMWFS is paying 5.5% to its savings account customers in Europe, and even higer on bonds, yet collecting only 3% or less on most US leases. Obviously it's not making profit when dealing with consumers. So where is the profit coming from? Well, we know that from the Annual Report: 19+% increase in derivative values. Is that Yen or Euro or SwissFranc carry trade? Talk about poor earning quality and a house of cards!
 
Returns on Capital and gross margins numbers can not be trusted when the "sales" and "profits" are based on sales made from BMW to BMWFS; in other words, self-dealing, with "leased-product asset" taking place of hard cash from consumers.

#24338 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:39 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 8:35 pm)
Accruals is where much of book cooking is done
 
Cash flows at BMW are healthy. Cash flows are as uncooked as a platter of raw sushi and sashimi.
 
Unless you want to accuse BMW of doing what Ernie Ebbers did at WorldCom (he played around with cash flow numbers and is now serving a quarter century prison sentence).
 
In fact it would not surprise me if you would make such an accusation about BMW.

#24339 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:41 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:30 pm)
Return on Capital is simply caculated by dividing profit into capital base. When the profit number is cooked (when $7k account receivable from real customer in a lease plus $30k "lease product residual asset" is counted as a $37k sales, despite the eventuality of marking the $30k residual to $25k or even $20k), ROC number is quite meaningless.
 
Cooking books result in higher profit number, and therefore higher return on capital. That's the purpose of book cooking.

#24340 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:43 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:39 pm)
Accruals is not cash flow. That's why I said cash flow is a more reliable indicator than revenue and profit numbers that take into account of "accruals." You are the one who said cash flows are unreliable because they fluctuate too much, not me. Please stop arguing against yourself

#24341 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:45 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 8:41 pm)
As I said forget all the accural numbers. Just focus on BMW's healthy cash flows. Oh yes this years cash flows are healthy too!
 
By the way Toytota has phenemonal accural numbers. And we all know those Toyota accountants all have halos on their heads while BMW accountants have horns on their heads.
 
Amen!
 
Nuff is Nuff. I am out of here.

#24342 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:47 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:45 pm)
As I said forget all the accural numbers. Just focus on BMW's healthy cash flows.
 
Hmm, now you want to toss away accruals, just like I suggested. BMW cash flow is down 13% according to the 2006 Annual Report. That's not healthy.
 
By the way Toytota has phenemonal accural numbers.
 
Toyota actually does account very conservatively. They expense R&D in the current year, and their residuals are below real life resale. Toyota has growing cash flow and liquid asset, as one would expect a company that is genuinely growing sales and profit without cooking books.

#24343 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:48 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 8:47 pm)
What Free Cash Flow yield do you define as healthy?
 
Despite the decline this years yield is amazing!
 
Toyota actually does account very conservatively. They expense R&D in the current year, and their residuals are below real life resale. Toyota has growing cash flow and liquid asset, as one would expect a company that is genuinely growing sales and profit without cooking books.
 
Amen again!
 
Byebye

#24344 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:52 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:48 pm)
Cash flow should not decline as much as 13% in a year when the company is supposedly having nearly 9% sales and profit growth. Where did the money disappear into? Why aren't the customers paying? Signing up dead beats or signing up such sweet deals that they never are expected to pay in the full amount that is booked as sales and profit?
 
This is such drivel! What a waste of time.
 
Should have thought through that one before launching into an argument against yourself in terms of accruals vs. cash flow validation.

#24345 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST

Mar 26, 2007 (8:44 am)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:48 pm)
This is such drivel! What a waste of time.
 
I could not agree more, as it is
1) completely off-topic, and
2) boring
 
Let's say "byebye" to this conversation (this can be done concurrent with your reciprocal "byebyes" to dewey) and get back to discussing the high-end luxury vehicles (not the manufacturers, accounting, or leasing deals).

Messages Page 2435 of 2473

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