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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2435 of 2473

#24334 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:12 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 1:15 pm)
You may want to take a closer look at the 2006 annual report in that link, not just the management prepared headlines.
 
No I did not even have the priviledge of reading the 2006 BMW headlines this morning. I didn't even know the 06 results were out until today.
 
LOL Brightness is this the basis of your doom and gloom prophecy for BMW?
 
Cash flow is down 13 percent? Cash flows in all companies fluctuate since they are not smoothed by accruals. You got to look at the average Free Cash Flows (CF from Operations -Cap EX) in the last few years to find out how a company is performing. And the average Free Cash flow yields of BMW are nothing short of being amazing.
 
Liquid funds fell 8 percent? Yeah so? What does that mean anyways? Most companies with good cash management try to reduce their cash balances. There is an opportunity cost in holding liquid assets.
 
Increase in financial derivatives? Yeah so? Good risk management involves using derivatives to hedge currency, commodity and interest rate risks? Where oh where is this doom and gloom you are talking about?
 
Leased products increased significantly? That's wonderful! Especially when it is profitable:
 
The Financial Services segment continued to grow
profitably in 2006, again making an important contribution
to the overall performance of the BMW
Group. The business volume of the segment in balance
sheet terms rose by 8.9% to euro 44,010 million.
Adjusted for exchange rate impact, the increase
would have been as much as 14.4%. At the yearend,
2,270,528 lease and financing contracts were
in place with dealers and retail customers, equivalent
to a growth of 8.8% in comparison with one year
earlier. The proportion of new cars of the BMW Group
leased or financed by the Financial Services segment
was 42.4 %, 1.3 percentage points above the
proportion recorded in 2005.
Regional expansion continuing
The business activities of the Financial Services
 
So Brightness according to you BMW leasing activities are equivalent to Enron's activities. LOL you are funny!
 
Oh and did you notice how their Returns on Capital and gross margins increased ? Naaah I didn't think you would. Next time Brightness look at the bright side of life instead of the darkness. Apparently you cant see too well in the darkness

#24335 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [mariner7] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:21 pm)

Replying to: mariner7 (Mar 25, 2007 3:13 pm)
And for the sake of BMW I hope performance will remain a priority for many consumers.
 
Here in Canada our Government is imposing hefty taxes on gas consuming performance cars . I've a feeling that Canada will not be alone with these kinds of taxes(Governments always try to find new excuses to tax their constituents especially when guilt is involved---cigarettes, alcohol and the newest of sins called gas consumption). Not good news at all if you are sitting in BMW's boardroom.
 

#24336 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:30 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 7:51 pm)
Yeah you are missing one minor detail about leasing.
 
The high returns on capital for BMW refutes your notion about leases. High and healthy returns on capital and a disasterous subsidized lease program are contradictions.

#24337 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:35 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:12 pm)
Accruals is where much of book cooking is done. A company that has supposedly nearly 9% sales growth faces 13% drop in cash flow and nearly 9% liquid asset decline, and that does't make you suspicious? On top of the company re-marking derivative market asset, presumably to make balance book look better. Exactly how does 8.8% lease/finance contract increase translates to 19%-29% increase in leased-product "asset" in the books? I will tell you how, massive increase in lease to finance ratio and very very sweetened lease deals.
 
The Financial Services segment continued to grow
profitably in 2006, again making an important contribution
to the overall performance of the BMW
Group.
 
BMWFS is paying 5.5% to its savings account customers in Europe, and even higer on bonds, yet collecting only 3% or less on most US leases. Obviously it's not making profit when dealing with consumers. So where is the profit coming from? Well, we know that from the Annual Report: 19+% increase in derivative values. Is that Yen or Euro or SwissFranc carry trade? Talk about poor earning quality and a house of cards!
 
Returns on Capital and gross margins numbers can not be trusted when the "sales" and "profits" are based on sales made from BMW to BMWFS; in other words, self-dealing, with "leased-product asset" taking place of hard cash from consumers.

#24338 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:39 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 8:35 pm)
Accruals is where much of book cooking is done
 
Cash flows at BMW are healthy. Cash flows are as uncooked as a platter of raw sushi and sashimi.
 
Unless you want to accuse BMW of doing what Ernie Ebbers did at WorldCom (he played around with cash flow numbers and is now serving a quarter century prison sentence).
 
In fact it would not surprise me if you would make such an accusation about BMW.

#24339 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:41 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:30 pm)
Return on Capital is simply caculated by dividing profit into capital base. When the profit number is cooked (when $7k account receivable from real customer in a lease plus $30k "lease product residual asset" is counted as a $37k sales, despite the eventuality of marking the $30k residual to $25k or even $20k), ROC number is quite meaningless.
 
Cooking books result in higher profit number, and therefore higher return on capital. That's the purpose of book cooking.

#24340 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:43 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:39 pm)
Accruals is not cash flow. That's why I said cash flow is a more reliable indicator than revenue and profit numbers that take into account of "accruals." You are the one who said cash flows are unreliable because they fluctuate too much, not me. Please stop arguing against yourself

#24341 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:45 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 8:41 pm)
As I said forget all the accural numbers. Just focus on BMW's healthy cash flows. Oh yes this years cash flows are healthy too!
 
By the way Toytota has phenemonal accural numbers. And we all know those Toyota accountants all have halos on their heads while BMW accountants have horns on their heads.
 
Amen!
 
Nuff is Nuff. I am out of here.

#24342 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 25, 2007 (8:47 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 25, 2007 8:45 pm)
As I said forget all the accural numbers. Just focus on BMW's healthy cash flows.
 
Hmm, now you want to toss away accruals, just like I suggested. BMW cash flow is down 13% according to the 2006 Annual Report. That's not healthy.
 
By the way Toytota has phenemonal accural numbers.
 
Toyota actually does account very conservatively. They expense R&D in the current year, and their residuals are below real life resale. Toyota has growing cash flow and liquid asset, as one would expect a company that is genuinely growing sales and profit without cooking books.

#24343 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 25, 2007 (8:48 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 25, 2007 8:47 pm)
What Free Cash Flow yield do you define as healthy?
 
Despite the decline this years yield is amazing!
 
Toyota actually does account very conservatively. They expense R&D in the current year, and their residuals are below real life resale. Toyota has growing cash flow and liquid asset, as one would expect a company that is genuinely growing sales and profit without cooking books.
 
Amen again!
 
Byebye

Messages Page 2435 of 2473

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