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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2432 of 2473

#24307 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [tagman] by brightness04

Mar 24, 2007 (12:04 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Mar 24, 2007 8:14 am)
There is nothing special about a twin-turbo I-6 that develops 300hp. Toyota had one as early as the 1993 model year in the Supra Turbo. Yes, that was an I-6 engine. Toyota strapped on a turbo, too, until a new V6 engine with greater bore diamter and hence power output than the normally aspiriated I-6 became available in the following economic cycle. BMW is simply a decade or more behind in that evolutionary path.
 
The test vehicle failure is very disconcerting, especially since it's not the first BMW 3 series to fail catastrophicly in tests in recent memory. It's not like they do comparos on thousands of 3 series cars, for crying out louder.

#24308 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by houdini1

Mar 24, 2007 (12:15 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 24, 2007 12:04 pm)
Yes, two for two. The engine quit on one and the other one spun out of control. Some record.
 
Not to mention that these things are tiny. Made for teen age girls and diminutive grown ups.

#24309 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by tagman

Mar 24, 2007 (12:37 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 24, 2007 11:35 am)
Take a loot at Brabus and Alpina: both are good at massaging engines; sometimes even strap on a supercharger or turbo-charger, but they don't have the R&D funds to come up with entirely new engines.
 
I beg to differ... I believe that the latest Brabus engine is almost entirely "Brabus". And just "strapping on" components is a pitifully weak explanation for the serious work that goes into some of those engine modifications and reconstructions.
 
TagMan

#24310 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by tagman

Mar 24, 2007 (12:40 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 24, 2007 12:04 pm)
There is nothing special about a twin-turbo I-6 that develops 300hp.
 
I completely disagree with you... as usual.
 
Too bad that you do not know much about the merits of this engine... with its almost non-existent turbo lag.
 
TagMan

#24311 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [tagman] by lexusguy

Mar 24, 2007 (1:15 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Mar 24, 2007 12:40 pm)
Too bad that you do not know much about the merits of this engine... with its almost non-existent turbo lag.
 
Right, there's more to it than just horsepower per litre. Volvo's S60R makes 300hp from just a 2.5L five. BMW could easily get 400hp out of the 335i if they wanted to. They don't want to. They are more interested in BMW smoothness throughout the rev range and banishing turbo lag. This is a luxury-sports car, not a Lancer EVO. Having zilch for power below 3000rpm is just not acceptable.

#24312 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [brightness04] by dewey

Mar 24, 2007 (2:49 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Mar 24, 2007 12:04 pm)
Your knowledge of BMW biturbos is equivalent to your knowledge of BMW V6s. I found your posts in another forum quite amusing.
 
 Well at least your knowledge of BMW biturbo engines is a bit better than your knowledge of how "realized resale values and inflated residuals are linked."

#24313 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [lexusguy] by mariner7

Mar 24, 2007 (3:32 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Mar 23, 2007 1:48 pm)
I urge caution on the edmunds test between G37 and 335Ci, because it was set up by Infiniti. It wouldn't be the first time a comparo set up by a manufacturer manages to make that manufacturer's car shine.
 
I remember a few years back journalists coming out of an introductory comparo set up by Lincoln raved about the Aviator against X5 and MDX. Can anyone even remember what the Aviator looks like if it runs over you, if one exists to run over you? Maybe the manufacturer tunes their cars and detunes the rivals.
 
But it's worrisome when BMW's keep go belly up during strenuous tests. A year ago the BMW 330i that won the C&D multicar comparo also gave up.
 
1st gen G coupe was one of the best looking non-exotics ever, IMO. But new one looks much worse, reminds me of SC430!

#24314 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [tagman] by brightness04

Mar 24, 2007 (4:02 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Mar 24, 2007 12:37 pm)
I believe that the latest Brabus engine is almost entirely "Brabus".
 
You gotta be kidding on this one. Brabus takes a MB production car off the production line then do modifications to it. Apparently Brabus has progressed to boring/stroking out existing engine cylinders; that's the next step among mod shops, after years of strapping turbo chargers and superchargers onto existing engines. Porsche turbo and BMW turbo's are not even messing with bore or stroke cylinders. In the case of BMW, it entails the taking away of maganesium components that were hailed as the best thing since sliced bread only a few years before.

#24315 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [tagman] by brightness04

Mar 24, 2007 (4:08 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Mar 24, 2007 12:40 pm)
Too bad that you do not know much about the merits of this engine... with its almost non-existent turbo lag.
 
"Almost non-existent turbo lag" is one of those descriptions that get lavished on every generation of turbo cars not built for ultimate power (sort of like an excuse), and only get trashed as "full of lags in the previous generation" when the next generation comes out. One of my cars actually fits that description.
 
Frankly, turbo lag vs. transmission shift logic is a tricky thing to test anyway. If one really wants low lag turbo, Mitsubishi is not the source, but UTX is the specialist in low-weight low lag turbos. The fact that BMW sourced from Mitsubishi is either due to cost reasons or due to future plans for much more power output. Mitsubishi turbo's are known for their high pressure high output turbo applications, not low lag low pressure ones.

#24316 of 24723 Re: New M3 V8 weighs 33lbs less than outgoing I-6 [dewey] by brightness04

Mar 24, 2007 (4:14 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 24, 2007 2:49 pm)
Your knowledge of BMW biturbos is equivalent to your knowledge of BMW V6s.
 
hmm, interesting take. BMW biturbos exist in real life, but BMW V6's are frolicking with unicorns.
 
Well at least your knowledge of BMW biturbo engines is a bit better than your knowledge of how "realized resale values and inflated residuals are linked."
 
I'm not the one arguing that they are linked. You are. Now please tell me how and why a buyer in January 2009 would pay $5000 more for a used 2006 R class than he would for a used 2007 R class when both are comparably equipped and have identical mileage, as the residuals in MB leases insist. Please show me how realized resale value and residuals are linked in that case.

Messages Page 2432 of 2473

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