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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Feb 15, 2007 2:12 pm) Ford and GM have very competitive mainstream products in Europe, but like Lexus, they only have a miniscule slice of the luxury market. Audi probably moves more A4s than European sales of Jaguar and Cadillac combined. Neither the X-type or the BLS changed any of that. Chrysler I don't think has anything. I saw a couple of Jeeps the last time I was over there, but that was it, and there were at least 20 Cayennes to every JGC, if not more.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Feb 15, 2007 3:16 pm) Unless they are banking on "Europeanizing" the U.S. market, they'll need future-thinking technology and styling to survive here. Fuel economy ratings must also improve as well as reliability. It's time for them to get people excited at the idea of buying a domestic vehicle... or else. TagMan
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Replying to: lexusguy (Feb 15, 2007 1:30 pm) I don't think I could've said it any better. For all of the sub-brands that GM and Ford preside over, they sure know how to make them work, seemingly better than the NA operation. Ford has finally gotten the bug and has tapped Ford Austrailia to help with the Ford Interceptor and Lincoln MKR concept cars, two cool looking cars that they better put into production, no matter what. And GM is really about to strike with the Cadillac brand being elevated even further upmarket with the next-gen CTS, DTS, and STS variants. Saturn is really looking good now. And Chevy and Pontiac can now sit next to the Toyota dealership without embarrasment as both brands have great product, even better next year with both brands going RWD. Chrysler on the other hand, well... When you have brand new '06 Rams and Durango's sitting on the lot for 9 months to this very day, there is a problem. The new Sebring want shake up anything. The Charger/300/Magnum can't survive with great sales forever. The P.T. Cruiser is long in the tooth now. So there are many things Chrysler has to do to even attempt to stay and/or become competitive. However, I have not lost faith in the domestic sector yet. They've been down before and bounced back. They all depend on us, so I'm not turning away now.
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Replying to: blkhemi (Feb 15, 2007 4:00 pm) TagMan |
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As a follow up, here's a peak into STS's 2008 interior.  And a short blurb. link title TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Feb 15, 2007 3:34 pm) It seems like that's exactly what is happening. The top brass at both companies have finally realized that their Euro divisions make great cars. Saturn's got both the Opel Astra and Vectra. From what I've read the Saturn Astra will even make it through with its Euro-quality interior unscathed. The Mondeo is also supposed to make a comeback, and there are plans to sell their award winning S-max van here as well. I definitely agree that the excitement factor has to go up about 10 notches. Building second-rate Camry and Accord clones is what got them into the mess they are in. As the saying goes, go where the big guys aren't (the big guys in this case being Honda and Toyota). They don't have aggressively styled, RWD sedans with V8s pushing well over 300hp. That's where Detroit needs to be. The "new" Taurus is going to continue to be a dud, but the Interceptor has hit written all over it. Now they just have to actually build the thing, instead of letting it die like the Ford 427 and Lincoln Continental concepts, both of which could've been saving Ford's behind right about now.
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Replying to: blkhemi (Feb 15, 2007 4:00 pm) Don't forget about the Chrysler Pacifica, Crossfire, and the Aspen SUV, and the Jeep Commander and Compass, all big fat duds. |
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http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070215/AUTO01/702150397/1148- But vehicles like the Dakota, Sebring, and Compass don't inspire confidence. Ford is in worse trouble. I liked the Ford Oasis concept from a couple of years ago. They need to get there with their designs. DrFill |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Feb 15, 2007 9:47 pm) Right. Opel Astra is very popular. Opel Vectra is a well-seller in the Entry LPS niche, as it is Ford Mondeo. The concurrence there is real tight, not only with Series 3 BMW, Series 4 Audi and Series C MB but also with PSA-owned Peugeot and VW-owned Skoda. Both Opel and Ford models have the advantage of being cheaper than the German Gentry. However, they have a variety of good engines, both gasser and diesel, with power and little consume. In particular, Opel Vectra is felt as having a high standard of quality. So, American corporations are making cars than are successful in Europe. But I do not see all these cars succeeding in the American market. To start with, all are manuals. May be they are too much rough-riders for the fancy of many American drivers, IMO. On the other hand, Fiat and Citroen (PSA owned as it is Peugeot) have lost a lot of ground in recent times. Fiat has almost disappeared. Citroen gave up the LPS and HELC segments to become best seller of cheaper cars. Now has announced its intention to come back to build more sophisticated cars such as a new C-something model that they say it will be the Tiburon of the XXI Century. Regards, Jose
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Replying to: jlbl (Feb 16, 2007 9:13 am) I think the idea that Americans won't like European cars is largely invented. Just look at the 3 series or the E class. Americans generally are not nearly as big on hatches and mini-wagons, but we like well designed vehicles as much as anybody.
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