Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jul 10, 2003 (1:42 pm)
Hello. I just came back to Town Hall, as I am in the market for a new car in the upscale sedan class. I am considering the 2004 Audi A8, and the 2004 Jaguar XJ8 at this point. I think that I have eliminated the 745i and MB E500...although I am still in my formative stages of this decision.
I am one of the few folks that currently owns a 2002 Infiniti Q45, which has been a great car, but it is approaching 50,000 miles, and I want to get out of it in the next few months. I like this car, but I am not going to get another one. To be candid, I might have gone back if they had updated and tweaked the car a bit, but Infiniti has chosen to let the Q45 stand as-is, and they are not going to do anything with the 2004 model. By the way. if anybody wants my thoughts about the Q45, I am happy to oblige. It really is a nice car for $50,000...although the resale is a bomb.
I was awaiting the arrival of the 2004 Audi A-8 anxiously, ever since seeing the exterior at the L.A. auto show this year. In person, I have to say that the car looks very good to me ---both inside and out. No disappointment for me. I test drove one, and had little complaint about the so-called busy or jiggly ride that Car and Driver and others have mentioned. In fact, it felt almost too luxo-smooth. The acceleration is decent, but it is not a scorcher. My 2002 Q45 feels a bit quicker....but they are in the same ballpark. I liked the interior look and the switchgear, controls and technology.
My problem with the Audi is the 70k plus, price tag. It may be worthy of this due to it's comparative quality and content, but I worry how the car will hold its value. I have a friend that got hit hard on the resale of his older generation 2001 A-8. As a high mileage driver I am forced to buy, rather than lease, and until I see that the new A-8 is more highly prized on the used car market, I worry about spending that much money on an A8 that I may trade out of in 2.5 to 3 years.
I also looked at the new 2004 XJ8. I was never a Jaguar fan and never considered this as an option in it's prior generation. I was very pleasantly surprised by the new Jaguar. It was comfortable, and felt great to drive. I also think that it is a decent value in this segment at about 60k without navigation.
I had considered looking at the MB E500, but I just borrowed my brother-in-law's new E320, and was not impressed by the space and feel of the car. The V8 in the E Class may be great, but I like the larger cars.
The BMW 745 is a great car, but I am just another of the many who cannot get over the ungainly rear end of this car. I have tried to talk myself into liking it, but every time I look at one from the rear I say to myself "what were they thinking?"
I am scheduled to do the S-Class A-8, 745i Motor Trend test drive this month in L.A. more later.
Jul 10, 2003 (1:53 pm)
I have owned many Q45's..although I will be jumping ship soon, as per my previous post...
To answer your question, the Q45's from 2000 to 2001 are nice, solid, comfortable cars. Not exciting, or highly inspirational, but they have good build quality and decent performance. Beware of small trunk and smallish back seat leg room. They are nice, dependable cars for the price....If you can get one with low miles that had a couple of years left on the factory warranty, it is a really good choice.
#2394 of 24726 michael_mattox
Jul 10, 2003 (8:43 pm)
Well lets just say I disagree with that, the A8 interior actually doesn't look anything like the LS430's. The Audi has a much lower center console and some real designer touches to it, the LS430's (imo) interior is just a Avalon x3, lots quality, but not much style, especially with that gaping whole for the Nav screen.
The SLR looks like a Vette??? Sigh.
#2395 of 24726 DonFenn
Jul 10, 2003 (10:25 pm)
Hadn't read your post earlier. The Audi A8 isn't going to ever match the S-Class for resale, but it's getting better, and should be somewhere near the 7-Series. Car and Driver's test car was suffering from a glitch as far as it's ride was concerned. I think it's a wonderful car and second only to the S-Class in my book. Look at the A8's price as being a bargain compared to a S500, which can be had with awd and even more features, but for a whole lot more $$$$.
The Jaguar is much improved, also liked. The 7-Series by all accounts is a fabulous car as long as you don't have to look at or try to operate (the controls) it.
Autoweek just released their "best" issue, determined by subscribers (like me). The S-Class won followed by the A8, just as I would have voted.
#2396 of 24726 LS430 Price???
Jul 11, 2003 (4:17 am)
Looking for the best possible price that anyone has paid for a 2003 LS430 with Levinson/NAV package. Thanks.
#2397 of 24726 Q45
Jul 11, 2003 (5:54 am)
Don, thank you. I was and am still thinking about buying a used Q45 with lower mileage, 'cuz I think, that the quality of Q45, LS430 or Acura RL doesn't deterriorate so quickly, but the price goes down, and in Q's case - dramatically, what makes it a particularly good buy for people like me - I put on a lot of miles, and can not drive econoboxes - I am getting too tired from noise, vibration, etc - & I don't care how much gas it burns. And 01 car looks like a particularly good buy. Of course there is '02, whaich comes out of lease now, it looks better, is stronger and more sophisticated, but it is what - 10G's more? And I am afraid it will have problems same as early 90th Q's had - too much power was biting on reliability (though a lot depends on how the car was driven). Of course, if a good '02 Q for a reasonable amount of money crosses my path, I'll go for it. Does anybody know - preferably from personal experience, what are trade-in prices for '02 cars with around 30K's mileage? I've heard it like in low $30th. Is it true? And what things should I look out buying a Q?
#2398 of 24726 As for the A8,
Jul 11, 2003 (6:42 am)
I looked this car over quite thoroughly. As with all Audis the interior as with Lexus, is probably the nicest in the business. The car handles very well although not a rocket. The problem is simply: overpriced and poor relative resale. Like Q45's it would represent a great opportunity on a used basis, eventually.
Jul 11, 2003 (8:18 am)
though my interest is Q and I definitely don't want for discussion to branch out - Audi's stylin' is too flashy, and quality "lasst viel mehr uebrig wuenschen" - in other words, not even close to LIA (Lexus/Infiniti?Acura). This is the reason Audi's depriciate so much, nothing else. They are excellent cars, the way I see it, with great dynamic, handling, really nicest (IMHO) interiors in the business, but they style them like Civics. Cheaper cars should dramatically change it's appearance every year, not $70,000 cruisers. That's why I am attracted to Infiniies - looks the same for longer time. Same thing do Lexus and Acura. Europeans recently go wild - A.m. Audi changes looks of the car every half a year, BMW recently is nothing short of controversial inside out (I was in 745 a week ago - didn't know where to start from, what to touch, etc), MB's look plain strange - too italian, and too sweet. Obviously, it is tough competition between them in Europe - but most of their cars are sold here - so, why do they do that?
Also, IMHO, the new Dodge/Chrysler cars look promising - Magnum, and C300 - if I could get one of them for low $30th, I will buy one - a new car is a new car, and definitely they will not depriciate as bad as a brand new Q45 - different class, different customers. Domestic brands are getting very sophisticated now - look at Caddy - it will be wrong to discount them - again, in my opinion, which could be wrong or right.
#2400 of 24726 to fsv: Infiniti Q45
Jul 11, 2003 (9:58 am)
I can tell you that my 2002 Infiniti has been relatively bullet proof, with the exception of the driver's power seat mechanism, and some repair bulletins. The resale is quite atrocious, so you might find a bargain if you keep your eyes open for a used one over the next several months. FYI, I got a prelim trade in quote on my high mileage (49,000) 2002 Q45 at about $26,500...that hurts. I may try to sell it myself at about 30k---- if that looks feasible.
I previously had a '99 Q45T, which is the same generation as the 2000 and 2001's that you are considering, but the T had the sport adjustable suspension. As I mentioned in my earlier post, it was trouble free and comfortable. If you can buy one in the low to mid 20's it is a good buy, and you will be at the advantageous end of the the Q45's unfortunate depreciation history.....
#2401 of 24726 Don Fenn - Q45 Resale
Jul 11, 2003 (10:42 am)
Don, the resale on the current model has been better than the previous generation. (although marginal) The milage is killing yours. At the other extreme, I saw an 02 on eBay 2 months ago that was bid up to over $46k and still did not meet the dealer's reserve. It had all the options and only had 5k miles, which put it at the highest end of the resale scale. Still...I figure the car originally listed for about $59k and could be bought at aroung $55k, so if someone was willing to pay over $46k for a 1.5 year old copy that's pretty good compared to previous models.
BTW, the design is only two years old. Why do you feel they should change it for 04? I thought they addressed two big items in 03 when they moved the CD changer out of the glovebox and changed the shift points to take more advantage of the engine. Don't see much else they need to do...