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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: syswei (Feb 09, 2007 5:37 am) |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Feb 09, 2007 2:26 pm) Funny, the CR of the year, the '01 S500 was flawless. The 3.0L V6 in my wife's RX300 was the exact engine from the range of years known for sludge buildup. When we turned it in with 80K on the odo, it never had a single engine or transmission problem, or any problem at all requiring an unscheduled visit to the dealer. Luck of the draw I guess.
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Yes, Dewey. The Chris Bangle influence is everywhere. See most 2007 Toyotas and Lexi; and now Audi! A great compliment to Bangle's creative genius! Let's not break an arm patting Bangle on the back. He did ruin the Z4, and the 3-series has taken a step back in style. It's like Lexus thanking Acura for coming up with the Japanese Luxury sedan. The only thing Toyota/Lexus can be accused of is executing the idea better. Don't matter who does it first, but who did it best! I'm sure someone invented the wheel (who was that again?), but everybody knows GoodYear. DrFill |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Feb 09, 2007 3:24 pm) When some of these attorneys smell blood in the water, look out, whether there is really a problem or not. |
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Today I drove the Mercedes S-Class. The salesman that went with me was the one that sold me my previous three Mercedes vehicles, and also my previous ’97 Boxster (before the Porsche Franchise got its own facility) and he placed no restrictions on testing the car any way I wanted. After just a few easy adjustments to the driver’s seat, I achieved a very comfortable driver’s position, and got a nice sense of the interior. I adjusted the side mirrors and rear view mirror and immediately noticed that the typical placement for the shift lever was totally gone. Instead, in a very natural and comfortable position was the Mercedes COMAND knob. The feel and weight of the COMAND knob is absolutely perfect… as though it is forged and polished out of a solid piece of stainless steel and turns with the precision of ball bearings. And as it turns out, that is a good thing because the COMAND knob can be used to control many of the car’s functions. It appears to be a good interface that doesn’t get too complicated to render itself useless. Instead, I wanted to spend more time with it, but there were more pressing matters at hand, such as a test drive. I started out by driving around town to let the engine warm up and also to listen to the interior noise level. The car was very quiet, although not what I would call the near silence that I experienced in the Lexus LS, but, nonetheless very quiet and the difference between the two cars was very small. The S550 was also noticeably very smooth. The S550's steering was precise, smooth, accurate and connected to the road. It was definitely better feeling then the remote steering of the Lexus LS in every possible way. This difference between the two cars is a significant one, considering that steering is a constant driving function. I made my way to the freeway on-ramp and hit the gas. The S550 pulled ahead quickly with smoothness and determination. I believe that the S550 and the LS I tested were fairly equivalent getting up to speed. Tests can prove this one way or another, but in my opinion it would be splitting hairs. The two cars are very close at 0-60, IMO. However, once at speed and going into a passing maneuver, the S550 is superior. There is less lag time for the tranny to achieve the gear shift and once engaged it feels quicker. The road noise is near identical for both cars on the freeway, but again the LS is a wee bit quieter around town. The handling is not as close. The Mercedes S550 is more responsive and deliberate and precise when making quick maneuvers. It makes the car feel smaller and sportier than the large sedan it really is. Very tight and even agile for such a large car. Mind you, it is no BMW 545, but it is definitely a better dancer than the Lexus LS. Brakes were absolutely perfect in every way. Go easy on them and the stop is easy. Go hard on them and the stop is quick and yet smooth. The S550 brakes are confident and assured without the grabiness of the LS’s brakes. The S550 was a joy to drive and the interior style and layout are first-class in every way. Modern contemporary styling is the theme with top notch materials and workmanship throughout. I could not find any imperfections no matter how hard I looked. This car felt, looked and drove like a true high end luxury car, with a terrific COMAND system, precision buttons and switches, and nice instrumentation. The exterior styling is dramatic, fresh and exciting. The one glitch with this car’s styling is the appearance of the rear trunk, IMO. It’s not that it’s bad… it’s just that it is not quite right, as is practically everything else about this wonderful car. It’s a personal observation and opinion, but I believe that Mercedes could have achieved a similar look with a slightly better approach. Other than that small criticism of the vehicle’s styling, I am quite impressed with this S-Class. It is darned near perfect. Real-life reliability data is still not readily available, as it seems most data is extrapolated from the previous model. The salesman insists that it is very good so far, and that in the end, the S550 will be known to be a reliable car. Of course, Lexus owns that category, and I don’t expect them to be toppled in reliability, but I do think it is possible for the gap to shrink considerably. We’ll have to wait and see. For now, Lexus is the most reliable, and Mercedes is not any threat. The price of this car seems realistic to me, and does not seem to be massively more expensive than a well-equipped LS460L. For slightly more money, Mercedes clearly delivers a superior car that looks, drives and feels better than the Lexus LS. If anything, the Lexus LS460L may be reaching too high with its price tag, but the Lexus reputation for reliability and value is very strong and it may very well command it’s price for considerable time. We’ll all see as time goes. One thing for sure… I know first hand why most comparisons place the Mercedes S550 at the top of the list… It truly deserves it. Next up... BMW 7-series and Audi A8L... I'll keep you posted. TagMan
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Replying to: dewey (Feb 09, 2007 7:48 am) |
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Your background as a previous Mercedes/Porsche owner is insightful, as the ride dynamics of the S seem custom built for you. Your chariot awaits. When I drove both cars, I didn't notice any brake problems on the LS, or easy to use ergonomics in the S, as the seat controls were befuddling to say the least, and COMAND can't be used quickly to make adjustments on the fly. It seems Lexus is building a car to a market demographic, but the car can be flogged without complaint, but without vigor. It will take rough treatment, but the S may enjoy it more. If the S floats your boat, salud! I wasn't as impressed. The LS looks much better to me, and has many intangibles that offset it's staid personality. A Porsche driver I would expect would like a Mercedes more. I have no question that the S550 is an excellent luxury car, just not for me. The LS has nothing to apologize for. If it's not worth the money, a market correction will be made. I think it'll be just fine. Keep the posts coming!  DrFill |
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Replying to: drfill (Feb 09, 2007 9:06 pm) Doc, just because you didn't notice the brakes doesn't mean that there isn't something going on with them. The brake pedal on the LS is much more sensitive at the first light touch. This is something that can likely be gotten used to, as I mentioned in my post after driving the LS. Initially it means that the operator has to be extra careful or the pedal gets touched too hard, and then the brakes grab. It's perhaps more about the smoothness and feel of the response to the brake pedal that is the issue, IMO, although in addition to brake pedal feel, I understand that the road tests so far have concluded that the Mercedes S550 brakes deliver significantly better stopping distances than the LS's brakes. I never said the ergonomics were easy in the S, although the COMAND knob is as natural as can be, the way it sits directly in front of the armrest, just waiting for your right hand to use it. And the seat controls are as simple as apple pie. No searching blindly for buttons. The Mercedes buttons are actually the shape of the seat in full view. Easy enough for a toddler, for goodness sakes. I do think that the Lexus LS has good ergonomics, but there would be a learning curve with all the buttons and switches. Likewise, I also think the S550's COMAND system would take some time to get used to, but once that is accomplished, it would be instant fingertip control. The salesman who was of course familiar with the COMAND system, was able to do use it at lightning speed. It was impressive and I felt comfortable with the menu and interface. Again, I see the COMAND system as just a learning curve, and then the reward is clearly at the fingertips, as well as the voice commands. My impression of serious road testing of these cars is that most real-life driving is not really that demanding anyway. The Lexus LS will do fine for most normal driving. For the more spirited driver, however, the LS would be a disappointment, while the S550 would be more fulfilling. That said, the S550 provides more realistic feedback to the driver than the LS, while the LS steering is remote and disconnected. I am positive of this difference. It is real and it is absolute... whether or not that difference matters is a personal choice. I know that the LS has its merits, but I have always understood you to be a guy that seems to often talk the talk of a spirited driver... y'know about the stick shift and all, and the EVO, and the MazdaSpeed, etc... that's why I can't understand how you could not prefer the truly wonderful driving dynamics of the S550. Heck, the COMAND system shouldn't be the obstacle... it's not as important and it can be learned... even by an old retired Doc like yourself. It's the drive that counts and I'm surprised that you don't go for it like a kid with his candy. TagMan |
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Replying to: tagman (Feb 09, 2007 8:13 pm)
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