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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2377 of 2473

#23755 of 24723 Re: A SOON-TO-BE OBITUARY FOR MERCEDES BENZ [brightness04] by reality2

Feb 06, 2007 (4:12 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 06, 2007 8:07 am)
This is stretching it a bit. Mercedes-Benz sold over 650,000 units in Europe for 2006. Yes, they offer much more in terms of range than Lexus does in Europe, but to assume that the majority was "econoboxes" is a bit sore grapes. Lexus barely hit 40,000 units or so in Europe for 2006 with the majority of increase coming from the RX or the IS and definitely not the LS. The LS sales in Europe are something less than 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001% of the S-Class, the A8, or the 7-Series,yet alone the total numbers for the marquees in Europe. And the numbers are not strictly related to entry level premium vehicles. This is an oversimplification of the sales numbers.

#23756 of 24723 S550 JDP data by syswei

Feb 06, 2007 (4:33 pm)

Remember how I some months ago linked to the JDP site (here), indicating that initial quality for the 2007 S was only average? Well, the same site now has an asterisk that notes that they are using the data for the model year 2006 cars. How worthless!
 
There is hope yet.

#23757 of 24723 Re: A SOON-TO-BE OBITUARY FOR MERCEDES BENZ [dewey] by tagman

Feb 06, 2007 (4:49 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Feb 06, 2007 11:48 am)
Sounds wonderful for Chrysler doesn't it? But how wonderful is it for the MB brand itself? Is it mere coincidence that the few MB fans in this forum have put their heads in the sand regarding this news item? (except Tagman) . Every MB fan knows this is bad news indeed!
 
Thanks, Dewey. Surprising, isn't it. But... merc hasn't posted anything at all yet, so let's give him a chance and see what he has to say about this.
 
TagMan

#23758 of 24723 Re: Dhamilton [killerbunny] by blkhemi

Feb 06, 2007 (5:11 pm)

Replying to: killerbunny (Feb 05, 2007 8:45 pm)
The whole point of this thread(or forum for that matter) is to bring people that love cars and at least know half of what they're talking about, together. Even Doc can talk with sense every blue moon.
 
But this is absolutely pathetic and ridiculous to compare Audi's quattro AWD with the like of these companies:
 
BMW: Doesn't offer AWD on none of the hi-po models, not even the 7-Series.
 
Infiniti: Again, the G35x and M35x are about it.
 
Lexus: Yes, the anemic and pathetic IS250 comes with AWD. But it takes hybrid to get AWD on others?
 
And Acura? Are you really serious. The RL does have SH-AWD, but can't hold a candle to quattro.

#23759 of 24723 Re: S8 [rockshocka1] by blkhemi

Feb 06, 2007 (5:17 pm)

Replying to: rockshocka1 (Feb 06, 2007 7:40 am)
Heavy rain? That's where the S8 shines, despite the low-pro tires.
 
The S8 is a very good daily driver. It's just like driving an A8. just with a little more spice. Same ride compliance. Same quietness.....until.
 
BTW: Houdini wants you to buy an LS. I believe you wanted to actually drive the car instead of being reduced to a floating coma. The LS is fine for that, but I'm of the driver type. LS and S8, it should be illegal to put the two of them in the same sentence because the follow two entirely different paths.

#23760 of 24723 Hemi by drfill

Feb 06, 2007 (5:46 pm)

The whole point of this thread(or forum for that matter) is to bring people that love cars and at least know half of what they're talking about, together. Even Doc can talk with sense every blue moon.
 
   If that's your way of saying you agree with what I'm saying, I'll take it. As long as you've learned something!
 
   DrFill

#23761 of 24723 Re: S8 [anthonyp] by rockshocka1

Feb 06, 2007 (6:22 pm)

Replying to: anthonyp (Feb 06, 2007 1:29 pm)
Tony, I'm not set on any one particular car, as I haven't made the rounds in any of them yet. August, when the boy heads off to school, is when I'll be pulling the trigger on something. Have been to the local Lexus & Mercedes dealers & they were both very courteous & not pushy. The Bride loves the Mercedes promises of complimentary car washes & massages on Saturdays. Was happy when the Audi got here finally, but hope the experience there will be better than at their other auto partner. Planning on checking out the BMW dealer this weekend for a peek at the 7.

#23762 of 24723 Re: S8 [houdini1] by rockshocka1

Feb 06, 2007 (6:35 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Feb 06, 2007 2:07 pm)
Actually, yeah, though went to a Div II school on the west side of the MO river. Handle was borrowed from an old Rage song. Missed the beaches.
 
LS460 is on my list, sadly not the LWB. Just wouldn't leave enough room between the bumper & the garage door to be safe. Same reason I can't include the S.

#23763 of 24723 Re: S8 [blkhemi] by rockshocka1

Feb 06, 2007 (6:49 pm)

Replying to: blkhemi (Feb 06, 2007 5:17 pm)
So, testing an A8 (also on the list) would be give me the general idea, since it's probably a given an S won't be on the lot? Just imagine the experience turned up to 11?
 
It's only recently that I've been comfortable enough to consider any of these cars. I'm going to try a bunch & see which suits me best. Not ruling the LS out until I try it.

#23764 of 24723 The LS460L Test Drive by tagman

Feb 06, 2007 (7:12 pm)

OK, so I drove the LS today. The car was an LS460L without the "touring" package. The vehicle was silver with a black interior and cherry/mahogany colored wood trim. I was given the keys (transmitter) and I was able to drive it without a salesman, so I was free to put it to the test. I drove a little around town to let it warm up, and couldn't help notice how quiet it was inside the car. Other traffic was there, but very quiet. I kept the stereo off. I already know it is a killer stereo, and I was there to hear the engine, the road, etc.
  
I got on the freeway and hit the gas all the way. Nice and acceptable surge, but not what I would call a rocket. The gears shifted almost without notice, so silky smooth and quiet. I could hear much more road noise at freeway speeds than I expected... the muffled thumping of the roadway. A little annoying, but well within tolerance and otherwise this is a very quiet car.
  
The steering is dead. There is no other way to say this. It is like a remote control device that is not connected to the car. Smooth, but dead.
 
I then stepped fully on the gas as if to pass, and the car had this small pause and then went into a lower gear and was quickly on its way. That pause is definately noticeable, however, and was too long a search for the gear, IMO. Otherwise it was a very smooth maneuver.
  
The brakes do indeed grab as you first apply them, but it is not severe. I was able to get used to it, although I wish it was never there to begin with. Other than that initial grab, they are fairly good, with just a hint of random grabbiness here and there, but always that little grab when first applied. The brakes should definately be better for a car in this tier, however.
  
The driver's seat's comfort was very good, but felt a bit shallow. Overall no complaints with the levels of comfort, and adequate for a car of this price range. The roofline was a bit lower than I had remembered it. I tried to lower the seat, but it was all the way down. Headroom was adequate, but that's it. The room for rear passengers was huge, and is as good as anything to compare this car to.
  
Ergonomics were OK, but there would be a learning curve with all the buttons and switches. Surprisingly, setting the performance switch to "power" didn't make any worthwhile significant difference, IMO. I noticed that the traction control could be turned off... as some might like.
  
The climate control was quiet and worked very well.
  
The interior fit was not as good as the car I saw at the Auto Show. I had a few minor complaints about the show car, but this car had too many irregularities at places where materials met, such as speaker grill and where plastic and leather met. I was surprised by that, and perhaps that is uncommon, I don't know. Maybe they are building these too fast, I don't know, but the workmanship was clearly not top tier, as it should have been. The amound of plastic and the layout of the interior did not make me feel like I was in a serious high end car. It truly did not.
  
So after putting it through some more paces, overall, the handling was numb and the steering was remote. The brakes were a bit grabby at first touch. The ride was extremely smooth and quiet. The transmisison and the engine are well-matched, IMO, and there are no complaints to be had except for that small but noticeable lag when it searches for a passing gear.
  
The styling did nothing for me at all. A large luxurious Camry, IMO. Sorry to those that love the LS, that I didn't like it more. I am giving it credit where it was deserved, and I will continue to respect Lexus for building a luxury car that is tops in reliability. There is nothing wrong with reliability. It's just boring, unfortunately, when it takes the form of this LS, IMO. I never had that feeling of excitement when driving it, or looking at it. I kept wondering, other than reliability and price, what's the attraction? It clearly must be price and reliability, because they are the ovbvious strong motivators to get someone to purchase this car over the competitors. Otherwise there is little reason to choose this car, IMO.
  
I did feel a little special when I drove past older LS cars and ES cars, however. LOL.
  
I left and went next door to the Audi dealer to see if there was an S8 in stock. Darn, there was not. I sat in an A8L to experience the interior.
 
The interior of the Audi was absolutely without any question whatsoever, and without any bias or prejudice, superior to the LS interior in every single way, in it's execution and layout and appearance and craftsmanship. This particular comparison is all too obvious for debate... it so clearly speaks for itself. As far as the drive... that is to be continued another day... as are additional drives.
 
I'll keep you all posted.
 
TagMan

Messages Page 2377 of 2473

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