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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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I hate being the bearer of bad news and unfortunately this is very very bad news. MERCEDES BENZ AS WE KNOW IT WILL SOON BE DEAD! CAUSE OF DEATH----KILLED BY DR. ZETSCHE'S MALPRACTICE: Read the following blurb from Wall Street Jouranl today and you will know what I am talking about: Although some shareholders have called for DaimlerChrysler to sell off its U.S. unit, Mr. Zetsche is preparing a turnaround plan that envisions increased cooperation with Mercedes. That would include the joint development of the basic underpinnings of automobiles, these people said, a step that has been taboo at the company up until now. The move represents a significant gamble by Mr. Zetsche, a German engineer who headed the Chrsyler division before taking the dual posts of CEO and head of the Mercedes unit just over a year ago. For years Mercedes's German engineers have resisted working with the more down-market Chrysler unit. As Chrysler chief from 2000 until 2005, Mr. Zetsche fostered some collaboration between the two divisions. Cooperation could also yield cost savings and cut product develop times to enable Chrysler to compete with leaner Asian rivals such as Toyota Motor Corp. Cooperation could also yield cost savings and cut product develop times to enable Chrysler to compete with leaner Asian rivals such as Toyota Motor Corp. WHAT PRESCRIPTION SHOUD DR. ZETSCHE USE TO TREAT AND HEAL HIS PATIENT MERCEDES BENZ? Since Chrysler's loss, a number of shareholders have renewed calls for getting rid of Chrysler, questioning how the two sides can share underpinnings without diluting Mercedes's premium brand. "There are no visible synergies," says Juergen Meyer, fund manager at Sweden's SEB Asset Management. "You have different companies with different products, different prices and different customers."
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Replying to: merc1 (Feb 05, 2007 6:37 am) Depending on how up-to-date the audience is. Market perceptions take time to change. In some circles, "the Cadillac of xxxx" is still a phrase of compliment. In others, nothing short of "the Lexus of xxxx" will do; for some, that's been the case since the mid-1990's, when actual buyers of MB started to experience reliability fiascos. "The Mercedes of xxxx" became a sort of joke for them. no one here has ever, ever disputed WHY a Mercedes cost more than a Lexus, only that it does and that cost plays a factor in the sales of the LS . . . It should be common sense IMO that if a car starts out 20K+ less than a competing car that the cheaper car would sell better We have been through this many rounds already. The MSRP difference does not even come close to reflect the true cost difference in acquisition. Go to MBUSA website, and you will get a pretty good idea of what kind of incentives it takes to move their cars, and how far their "prestige" has fallen. If you insist on repeating that non-existent "$20k," please don't be surprised if we have to go through yet another round of research on how much it really costs to drive a MB, in the opinion of MBUSA.
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Replying to: dewey (Feb 05, 2007 1:45 pm) 
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Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 05, 2007 1:53 pm) Show us real purchase cost deals in which the 07 MB S Class $20K price premium disappears when compared to a 07 LS? I think that many forum members here would love to find these kind of deals and it would be of great assistance? In fact you never did show how the $20K difference between a 07 MB S and LS disappears unless ofcourse I am mistaken and missed reading one of your posts?
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Replying to: dewey (Feb 05, 2007 1:45 pm) I'd really like to here merc's opinion on this as well. TagMan
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Replying to: killerbunny (Feb 04, 2007 9:49 pm) Factor in the new stylish Malibu, RWD Impala, new Camaro, first-ever for-real Hybrid Full-Size 'ute, upgraded Corvette, and an awesome new crossover all for '08, Chevy can only go up, and I wish the best for them. On to the subject at hand, yes the "LS" sells well, but the GS,GX, LX, SC's have fallen off by the boatload. The ES is not that hot right now either. It's problem is the stylish IS, probably the only Lexus worth of mention(besides the LS). But to call Audi negligible, a brand whose std. AWD has forced the hand of even the prodigious MBZ to at least offer it, a brand that still sets the tone for the finest execution of any car in it's respective class(even teaching Bentley the ropes) right down to offer performance variants that are the toast of the town. These are things Lexus is striving to acheive, not Audi. The jr. company has done good for it's 17 years of existance, but the little guy has to do some more growing, in particular getting a passport to venture outside of the US, even has to find it's own home.  
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Replying to: rockshocka1 (Feb 04, 2007 7:30 pm) The S8 is one hellava deal. For $92k, you get a V-10 engine, that while down on power when compared to the monster AMG MB V8's, has an exhaust note not heard from on this side of a Ferrari 599 GTB. Audi kept the 4-positon air suspension intact by giving a plush ride, but you have the option to tune it all the way down to hustle corners like nobody's business. And of course the look is very distinguished, event the toothy grille has grown on me. And most of all, it can be a daily driver. I should know as I drive mine to the City at least 4 times a week, other than that , and on nasty days, the Accord must suffice(bummer ) All in, it won't bullet out of a straight line like an AMG, but it blow it's Michelin's right off in the twisties. It hangs very well in corners with the 760i Sport, but will send it's breathless V12 packing back to Bavaria. And none the less, the AWD system is second to none. It has it's vices. It has a real passion for 93 octane if you lead it like myself. The shorter wb means a little less room on the inside than my W12, but that car is so long that a shorter wheelbase is definetely welcome. And everyone will definetely try to size you up if they're in a S55/65 or an XJR, just tap the gas and go. I really, really, really love this car as I gave up the best 4-door luxury on the market right now, the S600. But the S8 is sold out all over the place and it has my exact specification(Lambo engine mods that will remain nameless from those pesky NY State Troopers ), so that is why I chose to keep it. And will do so for some time to come.
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Replying to: tagman (Feb 05, 2007 4:00 pm) Nothing! What platform can be shared between MB and Chrysler without dilluting the prestige of MB? Did Zetsche's Chryselr advertisemnts about German engineering help Chrysler sales? No, not at all. So a closely knit MB-Chrysler will definitely hurt MB and may do nothing to help Chrysler. IMO Dr. Zetsche should seek an exit strategy from this combo from hell ASAP! The combination of a downstream marque like Chrysler (that does not have the reputation of Toyota) with a higly upstream marque like MB (that does have a far higher reputation than Lexus) is like mixing oil with water. It's pointless. |
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But to call Audi negligible, a brand whose std. AWD has forced the hand of even the prodigious MBZ to at least offer it, a brand that still sets the tone for the finest execution of any car in it's respective class(even teaching Bentley the ropes) right down to offer performance variants that are the toast of the town. These are things Lexus is striving to acheive, not Audi. The jr. company has done good for it's 17 years of existance, but the little guy has to do some more growing, in particular getting a passport to venture outside of the US, even has to find it's own home Delusions of grandeur brought on by merciless persecution. You are standing in Lexus' home! Takes ba!!$ to go to another country and build a home court there, but Coming To America was the plan, and they made it rock. Any growing Lexus has to do has nothing to do with Audi, which has no buzz, no hype, and it's tuner cars are either overpriced (RS4) or underwhelming (S8). And the R8 is nothing to get worked up over. Audi needs to learn from Lexus. That tail doesn't wag this dog, sorry. DrFill |
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Replying to: drfill (Feb 05, 2007 5:56 pm) Audi has no hype? Aside from the truly underwhelming LS and uber-poseur IS, there is nothing to boast about at the golden L. Lexus is so great, yet it's taken years form them to even attempt the performance market. They don't even offer a manual in the top performance car(pretty sure you have a reason for this as Lexus always does), yet all others do. So great, yet it relies on a 12 year old SUV to play in the big leagues. Lexus is like a 2-Liter soda. Fizz all the way, for about 2 days, and it's as flat as Kansas from then on. 
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