Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#23564 of 24723 Re: Oh, the LS has an edge alright. [drfill]
Feb 02, 2007 (9:21 am)
Oh, I beg to differ. Where did the S-Class commercials come from? I thought the S was so incredible it didn't need to advertise?
I love it! You change the subject when you're licked! We were talking about the LS getting a series of lukewarm reviews and now you're talking about Mercedes S-Class advertising.
Think Mercedes noticed that the buzz is gone, just like that? I wonder what happened? Think it bothers them that the Lexus parking itself is THE BUZZ?
Who knows, who cares...why don't you write them and ask them. Seriously doc you're just grasping as straws here now.
Over 3000 sales, compared to 2000 for the S-Class (a 50% drop in sales for the S might be considered an impact, since the S WAS consistently over 3k last year).
Apparently you're just plucking numbers out of thin air because the S-Class did not drop 50 percent in Jan 2007 compared to Jan 2006. When are you going to actually read a sales report before posting? The S-Class sold 923 units in Jan of last year which was the old S-Class not the new one since the new didn't go on sale until Feb. The S sold 2078 units in Jan of 2007 that is a 125 percent increase.
I don't fault anyone for not talking to you about this, because your credibility is long gone.
This from someone who just tried to feed us this nonsense about the S-Class' sales dropping 50 percent vs last year! Talk about credibility!
Just like your Lexus GS' sales dropped in the second year the S-Class will do the same, it is a normal trend. Those initial months of 3000 plus units won't ever be reached again, nor is it supposed to be. I know you'll not pretend that you don't know this and that the S is somehow doing a flop in the market place.
The Lexus LS is more than a match for the S550. I've driven them, spent time with both, and I agree with Edmunds accessment, who eagerly reference the S550 whenever the talk about the LS.
Yeah right, keep repeating that and maybe you'll actually get someone to believe it. It is clear to me that you're in denial at this point. In previous years the LS proved its place was secure review after review, now it has been reduced to lukewarm reviews here and there and a stunning loss at its previously #1 magazine. Yet you still act as though nothing as changed. Clear denial.
BTW, MT also found the LS faster. Not an isolated incident.
Really doc? Their "First Drive" of the LS460 in the Oct 2006 issue listed a "MFR EST" time of 5.4 secs, not an actual test result. BTW the the LS has never, even been able to get this number when actually tested. Anyway, then in the January issue in the COTY testing they got a 5.7 0-60 time for the LS460 SWB model compared to 5.6 secs for the S550. So you're just flat wrong again, now what was that about credibility doc? Either you're mistaken or you're trying to pull the Lexus vinyl over our eyes! Oh I get it you're talking about the 1/4 mile times I'm sure? That is where the SWB LS is faster than the LWB by default S550 per MT's testing.
#23565 of 24723 Re: Isn't this the pot calling a pot a pot! [designman]
Feb 02, 2007 (9:23 am)
Thank you! Like I'm supposed to know why others that defend Mercedes didn't buy one. Most here who pondered buying on already stated what their reasons were anyway. Blkhemi and Tagman have talked about why they did or didn't buy an MB for months now!
I guess now that since I don't own a S550 I'm not eligible to comment. Boy is this you don't own one you can't comment/angle as tired as ever.
#23566 of 24723 Re: Isn't this the pot calling a pot a pot! [merc1]
Feb 02, 2007 (9:25 am)
You can talk about any vehicle you want to talk about whether you own it or not.
What would be very much appreciated from you and others is that we back away from the personal confrontations that have been happening here.
Most times it's better to let an annoying statement pass rather than fly off at the person who made it.
#23568 of 24723 ?????????????????????????????????????
Feb 02, 2007 (9:54 am)
Is Doc a credible source after his SC review?
LG, I saw the Top Gear review of the XKR VS Vantage V8. I was very impressed with how balanced it looked while being driven hard. It was the best looking coupe at the auto show period.
It's amazing how one can read a review and come away with a different take than someone else.
BTW, the A8 still gives me goose bumps when I slip behind the wheel. [the wheel of the one at the show that is ]
#23569 of 24723 Ownership vs. non-ownership
Feb 02, 2007 (10:01 am)
As the host has pointed out, and we have all known all along, there is no way we could all own all the cars we talk about in this high end forum... well maybe blkhemi could.
I have indeed owned a few Mercedes vehicles, and I can assure you that an extra visit or two to the shop was all that I ever experienced beyond normal maintenance. The Mercedes were terrific. So far, the wife's Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas has had zero problems. I admit I am a bit surprised at that. I guess things are much better for Jag.
The Porsche is too new to know yet, but if it's like my last ones, it will need some repairs... so I purchased the extended warranty!... potential problem solved!
Some of us clearly show more bias here than others (no names needed), but there are no rules against bias... although I think it is a limiting factor. Preferences are a little better, perhaps they allow us to keep an open mind.
But call it whatever you want, I sure do love the Eurocars, there is no question in my mind about that.
#23570 of 24723 Why I don't like the LS
Feb 02, 2007 (10:13 am)
It's true. I don't like the Lexus LS. I guess it would be fair to explain this. As I said in one of my previous posts, the Lexus LS is great at isolating the driver from the road and surroundings... instead of connecting the driver to the road. This is a big difference, IMO. I definately prefer to be connected to the road and not disconnected from it.
Beyond that, I just don't seem to have any affection for the style. Even though it's better than the previous model, overall, I still don't think it is exciting or dramatic in any way. It never makes my pulse increase.
I honestly think the only use and desire I would have for one would be an LS460L, and to sit in that back right side seat with the foot rest and massage, and turn up the Mark Levinson system and relax. But who would drive? And why do that in a car when I would rather do that in my home? It's a poor excuse to buy a car, anyway.
So... truth is what it is. Sorry to you Lexus fans. I just can't help myself to lust over those gorgeous and more fun-to-drive Eurocars that actually connect to the road!
#23571 of 24723 Re: Why I don't like the LS [tagman]
Feb 02, 2007 (10:25 am)
Here's the thing I don't get - are you and everyone else who have negative (or even positive!) things to say about any vehicle speaking from personal experience with said vehicle?
It keeps looking to me like many/most/all (?) of you make up your minds from what you read and not what you experience.
If that's what you want to do for yourself, more power to you; it's no skin off my nose or anyone else's. I just know that I'd have to experience something for myself before I make a judgment about any specific attribute. How it actually feels to me is way more important that how it feels to someone who happens to be writing about it.
(But I will say that I would never, ever have any interest in the self parallel park dealy and I don't have to experience it to know that. )
#23573 of 24723 The Euro Car Makers May End Up Being in Serious Trouble!
Feb 02, 2007 (11:15 am)
Why is Audi, MB and BMW seeking to produce hybrid and diesel versions of single models? Seems somewhat redundant, doesn't it?
Well here's the reason:
Should the EU take the dramatic step of banning cars that emit more than 200 g/km of carbon dioxide -- a category that includes 1,440 models in Europe, of which
German carmakers make 612 -- it would slash profits by 30 percent at VW and by up to 40 percent at Audi, BMW and Mercedes, he said.
Hybrids would be the best way for MB, BMW and Audi to achieve such strict emission standards. Blutec or no Blutec, hybrids are the best way of achieving lowest emission ratings.
So who here would buy a hybrid BMW that is bogged down by a heavy battery and hybrid system? I certainly wouldn't!
Ominous serious clouds lay ahead for all Euro performance car manufacturers with these new regulations.