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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: drfill (Feb 01, 2007 11:48 pm) Well you have to look at why that was Doc. You and others kept harping about how it was the bestselling this and the bestselling that, yet you never, ever took into consideration that the car didn't sell for S-Class prices. Period. Yeah it handled like a barge, true. Nope it wasn't enough because the LS430 never matched the hype given about it here. Oh and yes it looked awful from every angle except from the side. Now the site you use daily has no credibility, and now C&D is the gospel? Or just when things go your way, for once? I love how you turn things around. Did I say that? You missed the point, yet again. You've for years said that C&D was the last word on the LS' dominance and never cared one way or the other about Edmunds (or MT or RT either for that matter), but since your beloved C&D dropped the LS460L like a hot rock you're reduced to seeking out new sources for your LS superiority rants. That was the point. It didn't have anything to do with whether or not Edmunds was right or not. You're the one that proclaimed C&D to be gospel for years and then when they didn't put your LS first or even second to the S550 you dropped them like a hot rock and now you're trying to say that I'm saying C&D is gospel. My god that is rich. It was your gospel for years doc!!!!! Nor do I use Edmunds reviews everyday, Car Space yes, but unless there is something of interest in the road test section I don't even look at it that often. Secondly about Edmunds it is very well known that their 0-60 times lag everyone else. Everyone else who has tested the S550 gets better than 5.9 sec for a 0-60 time. Yet everyone who has tested the LWB LS so far complained about long stopping distances! You are reduced to hanging your hat on stopping distances to ridicule the LS, as this site can't find any other weaknesses. And they clearly stated you can improve stopping distances with a performance pkg. I asked you a specific question as to why the LS can't produce a better stopping distance you come back with a grand excuse about one having to buy an optional package! That is awful doc!! I can only imagine what would be said if I told you that one had to buy an optional package to get an at least in-class braking distance on a Benz. Edmunds couldn't find any other weaknesses? You must have missed the other common complaint about "Grabby brake feel", another thing that has been nearly universal about the car. Also, this "though we didn't care for some of its squishy vinyl trim" didn't sound too good either. There shouldn't be any vinyl in such a car. You won't find any in a S-Class or A8. Good to see you use this site everyday, but don't respect it's views or reviews. Very revealing. Yeah it is isn't it? Are you done pandering? In case you didn't know it, liking Edmunds reviews isn't required to use Car Space. Not that I have anything against their reviews, they're usually ok. You can quit trying to win points with the hosts, they don't write the reviews. Uh...the editors are a seperate group of folks so good luck in your brownie point search. This site seems to have no problem putting the LS on par with the S or 7 based on merit, not price. That it's a better value is a given. Glad you found at least once source that does. Funny how when "this site" said that SWB LS460 wasn't on par with those same rivals you panned the review. I gotta tell you it must be awfully hard work having to sift through and remember which reviews to pan and which ones to use in a boast because the reviews for the LS are all over the place. The SWB car didn't stack up per Edmunds and yet you seem to think that their latest review says that the LS460L is somehow some type of revelation, when most of the same exact gripes are in place from the SWB car. Count me a one of the millions who respect Edmunds judgement. Sorry to hear you have no respect for Edmunds.com. Sound like a press release. Now because I questioned a 0-60 time I have no respect for Edmunds? Ridiculous reaching doc. The sorry part is that your former star can at best get lukewarm reviews from automotive publications and only glowing ones from non-automotive sources like Cnet. Say what you want Doc, but there is no escaping the fact that your LS didn't, hasn't and won't make the type of impact you went on and on about last year. Feel free to spin all you like, but there is no escaping that fact. You've had to do a huge flip-flop just to keep your LS rhetoric above water because your usual sorces have abandoned you! I can see it now, the New York Times says that the LS460L is the best car in the world. Yep that will clinch it for me! No one is saying the LS is a bad car, but the days of the LS dominating the reviews are over, long gone. We can debate the finer details of the two cars forever, but the new LS isn't even close to having the edge or in some cases even equalling the new S550 like the LS did. Deal with it. M
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Replying to: designman (Feb 01, 2007 6:17 am) I guess I can't help you with this one.  I don't have nearly as much of a problem with it as you do. My problem with the CL is that it doesn't look hot enough without the AMG kit. There shoudln't be that dramatic of a difference between the regular car and one with the AMG kit. I have no problems with the interior. M |
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Replying to: blckislandguy (Feb 01, 2007 7:50 pm) The irony is that, traditionally an MB is supposed to be with the owner forever. Using incentives to get a customer back in 24 months is more suitable for un-established brands such as Hyundai. And now it's reversed. Or is it that MB positions itself as an underdog (at least in USA)?
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Replying to: merc1 (Feb 02, 2007 12:44 am) The majority of the people who post here also seem to be staunch Mercedes defenders, yet invariably, when it comes time to pull the trigger and put their money where their mouth is, they buy some other brand. Why is that? And why do you seem to be about the only Mercedes guy here who actually owns one? If I am overlooking someone please forgive me.
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In sales, price, quality, features, looks, and acceleration. Say what you want Doc, but there is no escaping the fact that your LS didn't, hasn't and won't make the type of impact you went on and on about last year. Feel free to spin all you like, but there is no escaping that fact. Oh, I beg to differ. Where did the S-Class commercials come from? I thought the S was so incredible it didn't need to advertise? Think Mercedes noticed that the buzz is gone, just like that? I wonder what happened? Think it bothers them that the Lexus parking itself is THE BUZZ? And of all things, they are selling the looks of the thing? Oh baby!  No need to spin anything. A very impressive review by Edmunds.com. No one here called it a nice car, they were impressed. With it's handling, poise, and power. Over 3000 sales, compared to 2000 for the S-Class (a 50% drop in sales for the S might be considered an impact, since the S WAS consistently over 3k last year). I don't fault anyone for not talking to you about this, because your credibility is long gone. The Lexus LS is more than a match for the S550. I've driven them, spent time with both, and I agree with Edmunds accessment, who eagerly reference the S550 whenever the talk about the LS. BTW, MT also found the LS faster. Not an isolated incident. When you have the cards, you don't need to bluff. DrFill
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Either MT or R&T, I forgot which, did a first drive of the Maserati QP with the new autobox. It apparently has the same rev matching ZF six-speed auto as the Jaguar XK, easily one of the best automatics on the market. They were very impressed. The only difference is the automatic has a 49\51 weight distribution vs. 47\53 for the SMG. They will still offer it with the DuoSelect sequential manual, but I have no idea why anyone would order it that way. They also mentioned that things like bad panel gaps and vibrations\rattles that plagued earlier QPs have been eliminated. Very tempting... 
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Replying to: houdini1 (Feb 02, 2007 6:26 am)
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It's not that nice is an insult, just a backhanded compliment that doesn't fit. Don't be afriad of the big words!  I like Edmunds' choice of words: Luscious Rich Extraordinary Drives like a smaller car. DrFill
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Replying to: drfill (Feb 02, 2007 7:36 am)
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