High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#23537 of 24700 You're right! by drfill Feb 01, 2007 (7:16 pm)
It should brake better. Solution: Make it as slow as the Mercedes, then you wouldn't need so much braking force. And bring the handling down to BMW-levels, while you're at it (just don't get the Touring Pkg. if you want to do either). We wouldn't want it to do everything better. That would be overkill. DrFill Replies to this message: tagman (Feb 01, 2007 8:01 pm)
#23538 of 24700 That would be overkill by hpowders Feb 01, 2007 (7:19 pm)
Nope. That would be a superb vehicle. Replies to this message: drfill (Feb 01, 2007 7:25 pm)
#23539 of 24700 Re: LG, RX 300-350 [tagman] by brightness04 Feb 01, 2007 (7:21 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Jan 31, 2007 5:00 pm) Rather than get into semantics, let's just accept Edmunds' criteria and try to not over-analyze it. The MSRP plus "real-life" typical add-ons is the point. $59k is allowed in for the simple reason that mfrs and retailers love those $99.99 price points. Base MSRP at $53k and $55k however are a far cry from $60k. What you consider "real-life typical add-ons" may not be either real-life or typical for others. That's why Edmunds made it explicitly clear that just because a car can be optioned up to over $60k, it does not belong to HELC if the base MSRP is substantially below $60k. GL's claim to top SUV offering is also iffy. It shares platform with M and R. MB's top offering used to be the "G Wagon" It's stopped for this year, so M/R/GL platform triplets is the only MB SUV here. If Lexus paused the LX for a year, are we to automaticly include GX in HELC? Likewise if LS/S/7 skipped a model year, should GS/E/5 come in?
#23540 of 24700 Re: That would be overkill [hpowders] by drfill Feb 01, 2007 (7:25 pm)
Replying to: hpowders (Feb 01, 2007 7:19 pm) Yes. That would be an LS460L with Touring Pkg. I agree with you. DrFill
#23541 of 24700 I do believe... by hpowders Feb 01, 2007 (7:28 pm)
we should probably agree to disagree. Two immovable objects. And that's perfectly okay! Your point of view is needed here. I will always defend your right to say whatever it is you are attempting to say. Fair and balanced.
#23542 of 24700 Re: Mercedes-Benz USA Records Best January Sales Ever [tagman] by brightness04 Feb 01, 2007 (7:33 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Feb 01, 2007 3:37 pm) So, where is the "doom" for Mercedes that we heard some speak of? What per centage of that 17,069 "sales" booked in January were actual sales? How many of them will have to come back in 24-36 months on MB's dough? When a vendor embarks on a campaign of vendor financing, it will have to constantly increase sales volume. It's a treadmill that he can not afford to get off. Replies to this message: blckislandguy (Feb 01, 2007 7:50 pm) brightness04 (Feb 01, 2007 8:04 pm) dhamilton (Feb 01, 2007 9:27 pm) killerbunny (Feb 02, 2007 6:16 am) dewey (Feb 02, 2007 10:52 am)
#23543 of 24700 Re: Mercedes-Benz USA Records Best January Sales Ever [brightness04] by blckislandguy Feb 01, 2007 (7:50 pm)
Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 01, 2007 7:33 pm) Brightness, I'm no fan of MB (actually, I like the cars but don't think much of the typical MB owner) but the data that Tagman presented are impressive. Moreover, I see as a huge plus not a negative that some of MB "sales" are actually leases wherein the customer has to come back in 24 to 36 months. Yes, there is as you say a treadmill. But for the driver, not the manufacturer. The manufacturer designed it this way and it benefits them. Now if the leases are hugely factory subsidized ( you didn't give us any proof) putting customers in leases isn't an unalloyed blessing but it is a good step to getting them back in the door in 24 months. Let's not forget that the goal of a successful business is to have repeat customers, not necessarily happy or even satisfied customers. Razors and razor blades, construction equipment and replacement parts, and the illegal drug business are all good examples of the benefits that accrue to the business when the customer is forced to return time and time again. Incidentally, the lack of repeat sales is in a nutshell is why airlines are broke and consumer electronics chains come and go. Replies to this message: brightness04 (Feb 01, 2007 8:04 pm) dhamilton (Feb 01, 2007 9:27 pm) killerbunny (Feb 02, 2007 6:16 am) dewey (Feb 02, 2007 10:52 am)
#23544 of 24700 Re: You're right! [drfill] by tagman Feb 01, 2007 (8:01 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Feb 01, 2007 7:16 pm) It should brake better. Solution: Make it as slow as the Mercedes, then you wouldn't need so much braking force. C,mon Doc. You're throwing out sarcasm when you have no need. You've got yourself an overall decent review, with respectable 0-60 times, but pitiful braking. OK... it is what it is. Now, all of a sudden the Mercedes is slow? The solution is better brakes for the LS, it's that simple. TagMan
#23545 of 24700 Re: Mercedes-Benz USA Records Best January Sales Ever [blckislandguy] by brightness04 Feb 01, 2007 (8:04 pm)
Replying to: blckislandguy (Feb 01, 2007 7:50 pm) I absolutely agree with you that creating repeating customer is a great way to success, assuming the cost of acquiring such customers is negligible. There is really no magic in convincing customers to lease instead of buying: the manufacturer has to offer better deals than what an honest bank in the business of making money is willing to offer. In other words, the "sale" becomes diluted by financial subsidies. A couple years ago, GM and Ford were experiencing dramatic sales increases when they offered enormous financial subsidies. Look at where they are now. IMHO, therein lies the danger with financial engineering goosing sales numbers in the short term. The consumer is not the only way stepping onto the treadmill when the mfr engages in financial engineering: in order to close the book 24-36 months from today, the price gap between actual auction value of returned vehicles and "residual" will have to be written down, and that affects the company bottom line. In order to absorb that hit, more "sales" will have to be written up at that time. Replies to this message: dhamilton (Feb 01, 2007 9:27 pm)
#23546 of 24700 Tag by drfill Feb 01, 2007 (8:19 pm)
As long as you misuse the word "decent", my response is accurate and warranted. The words "decent", or "nice" or "fair" never came up in the review. The LS460L is not a "decent" car. You're better than that, Tag. DrFill Replies to this message: tagman (Feb 01, 2007 8:56 pm)