Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jan 30, 2007 (8:36 am)
75 percent growth for the A8 is amazing for this emerging market and there are no ifs and buts about it!
Actually that kind of growth for a particular model is not unusual at all for emerging markets. We are talking about a base of only a couple thousand units a year; high per centage growth is common when numerical base is low, in any market. Just to put in context, the Chinese car market itself grew by 34% last year (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/02/content_345100.htm), Ford grew by 86.6%! BMW brand 49.6% (Reuters artical headline actually reads 51.3%, growth is so high, they apparently can't even count consistently in the same article!), Rolls-Royce grew by 60%! (http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2007/january/09/12212.asp)
For what it's worth, Lexus sales growth was 76% in Europe! As a whole brand, not just select individual models! That's to a new numerical base of 50k units!. High per centage growth is common when the market is "emerging"
Also there is nothing wrong with being a high paid bureaucrat with a nice car
Interesting take indeed. A8 at about close to $100k local price (after import tax etc.) is roughly 30 times the local average annual income. In comparable ratios, if bureacrats in the US were driving around in cars costing over $1 million, you tell me no corruption is involved. Businessmen and corruption are not mutually exclusive in the developing world. I have my own business associates in China. Few of them have cars like A8 (after all, only a couple thousand were sold in a country of 13 billion). Those who do have cars like that certainly do not drive themselves. Heck, most Toyota Crown and A6 owning businessmen do not drive themselves if they can help it. I wouldn't want to drive there myself, given how crazy the traffic is; if you thought NYC or Boston drivers were rude, try driving in Shanghai
#23425 of 24723 Re: in Kentucky [gshocksv]
Jan 30, 2007 (8:46 am)
Very well said. MB and BMW are incredibly successful in marketting. The good news is that the actual cost of getting one can often be less than what many others may think thanks to rebates of alls sorts that you mentioned (please, other readers, let's not get into a debate over lease again). That makes the cars very good tools for "impressions" as you mentioned and as employee incentives when employer lea . . . er . . . gets one for the valued employees.
You wish you had a choice, but your gf will want a diamond no matter what.
hahaha, run! don't look back
#23429 of 24723 Re: Interiors [designman]
Jan 30, 2007 (9:31 am)
When it comes to design stuff, you and I, due to our specialties, just might see things differently than the others. But whether that is the case or not, I agree with your point in your post. I can see the advantage of real wood, but that advantage can be overshadowed by poor execution.
The bottom line on all of this is that, even to this day, the interiors of neither Acura or Lexus are anything to crow about. I'd give the edge to Lexus overall, as I always have, but those posts that lg had been making were too extreme and off balance... inferring that Lexus interiors are incredible and Acura interiors have never been any good.
Heck, they both use the same design theme overall, with some exceptions here and there. Yes, I'll give the edge to Lexus, but an irrelevant edge.
As you know very well, to this day, the flagship LS model uses conventional center stack / console layout and is executed with good workmanship, but for a HELC, there is an abundance of plastic and the design is nothing striking or special, just conventional that's done well. Acura doesn't have a HELC, as I see it, and that is another reason to expect better from Lexus, but it is not there I'm afraid.
Even the rear multimedia in the LS long wheelbase is the same design as in a minivan, with the flip down (although motorized, of course) roof mounted screen. These are a dime a dozen and cheap-looking. The BMW has an interesting center console approach that swivels and turns... not fantastic, but innovative, and the best approach is individual color monitors in the back of the headrests, like Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, and others.
Again, conventional and boring, but well done.
That's why all this baloney has been going back and forth. Lexus deserves no special recognition for those interiors, and Acura does not deserve such harsh criticism for also building conventional interiors that look very similar in their layout and execution... regardless of whether the wood is real or not. Wood isn't the almightly deciding factor between those two brands, that's for sure.
Between the Acura and Lexus interiors... I'd say a 6 for one and half dozen for the other... with slight edge to Lexus. That's the balanced reality, IMHO, of course.
#23430 of 24723 Re: LEXUS over the years [houdini1]
Jan 30, 2007 (10:03 am)
If your interpretation of driving is going from point A to point B then I can understand that.
However, if it is not then I must ask- do you derive any pleasure from driving? I do, I look forward to driving everyday. I enjoy the sound of the motor, exhaust, the feel of the road through the steering wheel & having complete control of the car with my hands (via manual tranny).It's almost an addiction.
I have yet to find a Lexus to deliver "driving" pleasure. Maybe the Lexus IS-F will do better but then again maybe not. From what I hear, they still won't put a manual tranny in their M3 fighter.
As far as the indirect personal attacks- whatever...
#23431 of 24723 Re: LEXUS over the years [ggesq]
Jan 30, 2007 (10:27 am)
Let's stop making this personal. We all are entitled to our priorities and, really, we have no right to dictate to others what their priorities should be. Sometimes it's a good idea to just understand that the other person has a different point of view and that's okay - you don't have to agree, but it's all good! There's no need to make differing viewpoints into personal confrontations.
And please note that we've been losing track of the definition of this discussion. Please remember what we've worked so hard to define - see the header if you don't remember.
#23432 of 24723 Re: LEXUS over the years [pat]
Jan 30, 2007 (10:34 am)
Just when I thought I found a disciple!