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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Just getting caught up to speed with everyone. Merc1- Great pics from Motown. I got some that I need to get on here also. Maybach? Mercedes just needs to cut their loses now and forget that they even attempted this arena of automobile. MAybe if they'd put the 3-pointed star on the hood, they wouldn't have to entice prospects with $20k in free upgrades. And lastly, of course, the good Doctor comes back with a bang only to find out it's a dud. Why pick on Audi? Do you just want to own one that bad? I'm not going to argue or start a Lexus V. Audi conundrum with you, as that would be your cup of tea, but before we boast about Lexus, and it's Toyota parent, we may want to look at what the consumers are saying. Yes you North American consumers, more to the point, your USA customers as you've summurized them. The quality is fading, rapidly. And that is Toyota's only calling card. It fails, for sure the rest will. Lexus is no longer the shining star that it once was. You have a 12 year old SUV that you ask $65k for(a very GM move on this one, but even they're not that bad as the Escalade shames the LX), an SUV and sedan that are based on a Camry that are no longer the stars in their classes, and a uber-poser GT conv/coupe that is so bad that even Jim Press admitted "it's time to send it to the scrapper". Now to Audi. I don't remember Lexus being on the verge of selling 1M cars, WORLDWIDE. You do know there are 5.7 BILLION people that are outside of the United States? So they mean nothing? Oh and by the way, when China(not if) gets their way, they will be the number one market in the world by 2010/11, and what is the number one selling HELM in that country. Yes, it's true, the very second-rate, non-worthy(as you'd put it) Audi A8. So you may want to stop your "We're #1" chant ahead of time. Audi is also increasing M-O-M, Y-O-Y sales in this very country. And to boot, let's not forget that a 4 year old Audi A8 soundedly beat your brand-spankin new luxo-lounger LS460 in your BFFM(Best Friends Forever Magazine), C&D, Yes that would be the same one that you boast about all the time for the LS430 beating a MB S430. Ah, but this time it's a conspiracy, I'm sure of it. Right along with that 200ft stopping distance that's been repeated by 3 mags. I challenge you to line up Lexus' current and very near future(3 year) line-up with Audi's, only the ones for the US. Outside of the IS500(will not beat a RS4 or M3 with a prayer), the LF-A, it's still same old Lexus: We do enough, just enough. We even park your car for ya....
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"Worldwide last year, Audi outsold Lexus 905,100 to 460,000 units. Audi sold 260,000 cars in Germany while Lexus sold 25,000 vehicles in all of Europe." Joseph Szczesny 1/21/2007.
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Replying to: hpowders (Jan 24, 2007 4:25 pm)
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Replying to: houdini1 (Jan 24, 2007 4:36 pm) To me, selling twice as many cars WORLDWIDE is pretty impressive.  My man Tony should be very proud that his Audi A8 comes from a company acknowledged by THE WORLD as being one of the truly outstanding upscale vehicle manufacturers. By the way, the A8 was one of the very few vehicles at the auto show that impressed me both inside and out.
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If only to teach you a lesson.  The A4 has been easily passed by the IS, in one year, so that one isn't worth mentioning. Lexus can't build enough, and doesn't have to go to $25k to sell one. The A6 and GS is a wash, since neither has done much damage in the market place, or in comparisons. The A8 has been getting beaten rather easily by the LS in sales AND comparisons by the LS for MANY years, until this anomaly of a test, run by the once-reliable C&D. If you think a VW Rabbit is superior to a Mazda3, please put credence into this test. Otherwise, rinse and repeat. May cause tearing.  And the Q7 can't be given away, as the 10-year old LX gives it a run for the money in sales. And the R8 looks like a racoon I hit on I-10 next to the LF-A. Audi is just trying to use Lexus sterling name to drum up controversy and interest in a brand that is not interesting, much less sterling, and hasn't been for decades. Audi is not a threat. It is the Jim Kelly of luxury car makers. Can get it done right up to the big game, then folds like a house of cards.  DrFill
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Well said! Audis are EXTREMELY interesting. I plan on driving the A8 sometime next year.
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I like the A8 more than the S-class and far more than the 7 series. I'm very interested to see what the next gen A8 is like, I'm sure Audi is going to build a VERY impressive car. The A6 has really grown on me, its my pick of the German trio, despite the fact that the 5 and E crush it in sales in the states. The TT has become a cool car. The last one was basically a Golf with an enormous price hike and was a total poser sports car, but the new one actually walks the walk. The TT-RS should give BMW some serious worry. The A5 and A7 should be interesting, and its worth noting that Lexus has no competitor for either. |
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"I like the A8 more than the S-Class and far more than the 7 Series." I agree! I sat in each one of these at the auto show and the one that impressed me most regarding style, seats and interior was the A8. |
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Replying to: tagman (Jan 24, 2007 9:33 am) http://www.aicautosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp Lexus LS460/430 sold 3865 in December, 26k in 2005; MB S class 2987 in December, 16k in 2005, 31k in 2006; BMW 7 series over 2k in November, 18k in 2005; Audi A8? 323 in Dec, 557 in Nov, about 5k for both 05/06 Audi is is a minuscule player in HELC. Their "collosal sales in Europe" is built on very plebian cars like A3 and A4, which has nothing to do with HELC or even debatable luxury. Globally, A4 and A6 compete with cars like Toyota Crown, not Lexus. The majority of A8 sold in Europe have V6 engines, and have MSRP around $50k. That would disqualify A8 itself in HELC discussion. The REAL truth is that Audi is a global success and is just now in the early stages of what is a gigantic ascention in this U.S. market. That may have been the case back in 1994. Audi/VW has just finished another cycle here in the US. It will take a few years before another generation of suckers are born and unware of just how unreliable their cars are. If Audi were promising in the US, VW would not have been an acquisition target by a much smaller player like Porsche in a reverse take-over. |
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