Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#22710 of 24726 Re: Maserati offers 1.9 percent financing [lexusguy]
Jan 03, 2007 (3:59 am)
If people hate the SMG in a car like the M5, they're really going to hate it in the QP. If they get it right, a conventional autobox can still be a lot of fun (Jag XK) while being smooth as butter.
As pointed out by Designman and others it appears even perfection has its shortfalls. There is a whiff of negativity about a manual BMW M5 (I never thought I would see that day in my lifetime).
As quoted by Automobile Magazine:
, BMW took away the ability to fully disable the stability control system. Many enthusiasts will find that unacceptable, and there will be no Ford Shelby GT500-style smoky burnouts at stoplights.
OUCH! Pretty damaging IMO. I used to ridicule the Lexus IS and GS for VDIM. Now the BMW M5's stability control system cannot be disabled Oh well at least I can disable the stability control in my two current BMWs (Sigh of relief).
It appears the Development Chief of the M Division is miffed with us North Americans for demanding a stick:
Gerhard Richter, the development chief of BMW's M division, practically gnashed his teeth in frustration when he told us last spring that the BMW M5 would be made available with a six-speed manual transmission in 2007. He knew that rabid BMW purists in America had forced the M division to make the six-speed available as a no-cost option for the U.S. version, even though this transmission makes the M5 slower than the car with the standard, seven-speed, electrohydraulic-activated, sequential-manual gearbox (SMG).
And Richter is right: the M5 is slower and even clumsier with a conventional six-speed manual gearbox and a clutch pedal. But the six-speed M5 is also better to drive in almost every way.
SOURCE: AUTOMOBILE MAGAZINE
#22711 of 24726 Adding insult to injury
Jan 03, 2007 (5:40 am)
Also from Automobile:
"Surprisingly, the six-speed's clutch action is as light as you'll find in a BMW 3-series..."
Heresy and pure sabotage. One of the great things about the M cars is (was?) their heavy clutches. They're trying to force SMG on us. Either that or they're just not thinking clearly or taking the market for suckers. I will never buy a car with an automatic clutch. If I choose to rattle my teeth it's done with my left foot.
Jan 03, 2007 (7:33 am)
OK feel free to step on that banana peel of a lane change test. Track tests proof this out. Your clinging to a ridiculous lane change test? Your a better car guy than that Merc.
#22713 of 24726 Re: Maserati offers 1.9 percent financing [dewey]
Jan 03, 2007 (7:33 am)
Welcome back Tagman.
Thanks, Dewey... it's good to be back.
Thanks but no thanks. What is a performance car with a compromised transmission? Not much in my opinion.
Exactly my point. I knew you'd understand it. But, especially with the '07's solution staring the '06 in the face.
#22714 of 24726 Re: Merc [dhamilton]
Jan 03, 2007 (9:03 am)
I am amazed at the persistence of these E AMG vs. M5 vs. S6 arguments? All three are turkeys when compared to an overpriced Audi RS4 which is far cheaper than the E AMG, M5 and S6. I am confident that the new BMW M3 will beat the RS4 and at the same time the Bimmer will be offered at a price that does not border on the side of RS4 ridiculousness.
If you want luxury then buy a heavy oversized MB S550 /S600 or even a Audi A8. If you want performance in a sedan than buy something that is nimbler, lighter and smaller like a Audi RS4 or BMW M3(although these vehicles are not exactly light).
Jan 03, 2007 (1:27 pm)
Video of the Jaguar CX-f:
Nearer to production CX-f was recently spotted:
Pardon my last post: I meant to write oversized turkeys not just turkeys.
#22717 of 24726 Re: Merc [dhamilton]
Jan 03, 2007 (2:14 pm)
Here I am thinking you had a point to begin with. I'm looking at the MT comparo and in your precious figure 8 test the Audi did a whole 5 tenths of a second better than the E63, yet they both produced the same amount of G's. Talk about making something out of absolutely nothing. Talk about a ridiculous, you trumped this nonsense up to be some great difference and it ISN'T. I do see a 9 tenths of a second difference in their 0-60 numbers and almost 10 mph difference in their 1/4 mile traps speeds. You know good and well that if there are any "major" differences between the performance of these 2 it is in acceleration, not your figure 8 or the lane change test. Braking the Audi has a slight advantage, about 3-4 feet in both comparos.
What nonsense you're tried to trump up here. You're clinging to a figure 8 test that show about the same amount of difference between the two cars as C&D's lane change test did, but I'm clinging to some nonsense? Pot, meet kettle.
#22718 of 24726 Re: Merc [merc1]
Jan 03, 2007 (4:27 pm)
I regretfully have to inform you that you lost our MB E vs. BMW 5 2006 sales bet. Oh and by the way how did that brochure taste after that other MB S Cabrio bet of ours ? At least I am glad you are still alive.
During Dec. Audi sales grew 39.7 percent
During Dec. BMW sales grew 21 percent.
What the hell is wrong with these buyers? Have they never read CR or JD Power before? Dont they know that Lexus is number one in reliability? I just dont understand it?
#22719 of 24726 Re: Adding insult to injury [designman]
Jan 03, 2007 (4:38 pm)
"I will never buy a car with an automatic clutch."
Drive a DSG-equipped Audi and you'd quickly change your mind. They're actually more fun to drive than some hi-po flat-out 6spd. manual cars.