Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Apr 08, 2003 (4:13 pm)
Yes it would be an embarrasment and totally ridiculous for the original carmaker to start taking styling cues from a Japanese brands who's sole existence was trumped up to mirror them. And to take something from Ford would be even more ridiculous.
No Mercedes isn't totally original in every single respect and every now and then over the past 117 years they've had to take a lesson from others, but for the most part Mercedes-Benz has stood alone in it's leadership. You don't agree? Mercedes is clearly more of an innovator than Lexus will ever be. There was a reason why Japan's best didn't even look at Cadillac, Lincoln, Jaguar, Audi or even BMW (until recently) for their inspiration for a luxury car, but jeeweez 13 years later and they're still aping from you know who.
Yes BMW began the whole thing in 1988 with the V12 750iL, and YES Lexus did change the landscape considerably in 1990 with new ways of selling cars and serving the customer. Not disputing that at all, my problem with Lexus is their ridiculous c ______y of that other brand. It's absurd. Nobody except a few Korean brands make their cars such knockoffs (LS430) stylewise. Even Infiniti has seen the light of having their own designs.
And I also disagree with being a class of your own. Nothing wrong with that if everyone else is trying to get into your "class". Just ask BMW.
Apr 08, 2003 (4:15 pm)
So, if the Lexus is "yawningly predictable", it sells cars, so you can't blame them.
I agree with you, BTW, about the Avalon's resemblance to the LS430. But....the C-class Mercedes resemble the S-class even more so. It's family resemblance (Mercedes family, in this case are prettier).
Apr 08, 2003 (4:19 pm)
Sure can't, good quality will always sell to an extant. Combine that with their dealership practices and you've got a winner for most people, just not for the enthusiasts.
Apr 08, 2003 (4:21 pm)
I consider MYSELF an enthusiast and Lexus' appeal to me. Regarding your comment.....I "resemble" that.
Apr 08, 2003 (4:31 pm)
But you own a Benz right?
Apr 08, 2003 (4:54 pm)
Right! current cars.....2003 E-Series, 2001 LS430, 2002 Infiniti G35.
#2263 of 24723 carnaught
Apr 08, 2003 (5:02 pm)
how's that G35?
mecr1 - regardless of who makes a performance suv - they should not be intended as performance vehicles. Very dangerous in my opinion. They will appeal to a crowd that will drive them recklessly and all of our insurance costs will rise as a result.
Apr 08, 2003 (6:08 pm)
The G35 is fast and fun to drive. The quality of materials and dealer practices are much below Lexus and Mercedes, more on the order of "Nissan +".
#2265 of 24723 carnaught
Apr 08, 2003 (7:03 pm)
Sat in a Q45 recently at a shopping mall near me and felt the same way about the materials.
In Merc1's germancarfan link I read another one of those posts about how one feels a certain exhilarating feeling driving a German car. Now I've driven the old Audi 5000, the A-8, the old 7-series, the 5 series, the old (quite often) and new S and the old E-class (also quite often). Maybe I'm missing it but I never got the uplifting feeling that others advertise. In fact I've concluded it's psycholigical in nature unless you are dealing with an AMG or M. I've never driven either of the latter but I can buy the exchilaration argument on those custom-like cars at least.
But while the more common sedans are all excellent cars I find the LS430 rivals or surpasses every one of them and the GS is right there with its competitors. Am I missing this exhilaration. Do you get it in your E-class vs the LS430 or is it indeed a psychological thing?
Merc1 - you'll like this one. I was reading a story about one of saddam's high henchman that the allied forces attacked and they referred to his car as a superlux German or Japanese sedan. So was it an MB or a Lexus?