Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#22513 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [lexusguy]
Dec 26, 2006 (12:34 am)
I don't really take issue with anything you're saying, but I just don't get this about C&D being so brilliant one minute and idiots the next, the conspiracy theories, and so on. Every single review that doesn't put the car in the best light possible is deemed to have been written by clueless editors, while a review by Cnet is taken to be gospel. Something is wrong if you have to turn to a non-automotive publication for the best reviews on a car.
I think the pre-production status is what caused the long braking distances.
Mind you all of this is for those who used to boast about how the LS400 and LS430 whipped the competition oh so many times in years past, not you.
Some say C&D was looking for the sportiest car. That isn't true either otherwise the BMW or Audi would have won. They picked the car that was the best all arounder, IMO. We all know the Audi and BMW can be driven like sports cars, but the lack that ride that a lot of luxury car buyers like, especially the A8 (according to some magazines) The S is able to deliver that "ride" with better handling than the LS and that is what puts it over.
Truth be told I actually like this LS more than even the 1993-1994 LS400 (my previous favorite LS). I like the interior shots making their rounds in all the mag advertisments and the car does indeed set a new standard for Lexus styling out on the road. I rode next to a white LS460L the other day, dare I say it was actually good looking for a Lexus. The pipes coming through the rear bumper is nice touch, but I take it Lexus has tested this to make sure they don't melt anything.
Actually it was a LS460L, a Bentley Continental Flying Brick, a CLS550, S500, 3-Series, and me (CLK430) all sitting in 2 lanes waiting at a light. I live the wrong area.
#22514 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [merc1]
Dec 26, 2006 (5:55 am)
Mr. merc1, I actually think you are being rather reasonable here. The only thing I take issue with you on is your statement "every single review that doesn't put the car in the best light possible is deemed to have been written by clueless editors, while a review by Cnet is taken to be the gospel". I don't think that most of us LS fans are saying that all magazine reviews that do not paint a favorable picture of the new LS are clueless. However, I truly believe that C & D could have done a much more professional job in this review. To me and some others, they were extremely sneaky in not pointing out in bold black and white that this was a pre-production model. In fact, they did not even use a hyphen in the word, probably as an attempt to hide it as much as possible. On the other hand, most of us agree that the Cnet review probably went too far the other way. Let's face it. If THE best handling car is your cup of tea, then by all means go with the S550 or BMW. However, I would venture to guess that the majority of us "joe blow" drivers could not care less about THE best handling vehicle. Instead, we look for other qualities such as comfort, technological advancements, fuel economy, environmental concerns, etc., etc.
Again, I appreciate your honest attempt to be fair. This is in stark contrast to some others (will not name names but you can well guess) on this board.
#22515 of 24723 Re: The C&D Comparo [merc1]
Dec 26, 2006 (6:21 am)
All true. When you bring up significant questions like: would Lexus send a pre-production LS to C&D for testing that is significantly different than the production model in driveability? or, if the LS won the comparo with a pre-production model, would the same folks now calling foul be pointing out that hey, you know, it may have not won if a production model was supplied instead? What about the other vehicles in these comparos? Aren't pre-production models supplied for these tests all the time? If they weren't, how are the auto mags. supposed to test them in a timely manner?
No. It is more convenient for some to resort to name-calling as one recently did, calling me a "troll." When you don't like what you hear or don't have the intellectual capacity to respond, resort to name-calling. Nice.
Folks, if you have nothing to debate, please ignore my posts. I consider myself way too to get involved in stuff like that.
#22516 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [cyclone4]
Dec 26, 2006 (6:26 am)
Regarding your ridiculous and paranoid "observation" that C&D purposely didn't highlight that the LS tested was a pre-production model:
What difference does it make? Auto manufacturers send pre-production models for testing all the time. How else would the auto mags get their reviews off in a timely manner?
Do you think the LS that won a previous C&D comparo wasn't a pre-production model? I didn't hear anyone at that time asking if it was a pre-production model that won.
Do you think a manufacturer in its right mind would send a pre-production vehicle for testing that was significantly different in driveability than the production model?
Face the truth. Let go of the state of denial. The new LS came in a dismal last in the comparo. If the average "Joe Blow" doesn't care about spending a fortune for mediocre brakes and steering, then that's his problem. The rest of us will continue to buy or lease MB, Audi and BMW.
Also stop with the insinuations. You want to discuss cars, then do so. Please leave out that you will "not name names."
This is a place to discuss cars. It is not the Spanish Inquisition.
#22517 of 24723 Re: The Deal of the Century! [merc1]
Dec 26, 2006 (6:39 am)
I also don't know the technical aspects of how my computer works...but I know IF it is working or not. Don't try to hang your hat on a statement I made about not knowing how an airbag is set off, that's REALLY silly.
I certainly know WHEN an airbag should go off and when a $200K+ car is totalled in a front end collision the airbag should deploy. That is my opinion and I think it is very reasonable. Your attempted brow beating won't change it. Now get over it.
#22518 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [hpowders]
Dec 26, 2006 (6:44 am)
You of all people here should never remind anyone about name calling. Enough said!
BTW, no I don't believe that the other vehicles tested were pre-production models. The S550 for example has been out for a long time. The LS460L testing was done on August 29. The official release of the LS was about 2 months later. I don't think that Lexus was overly concerned that it was a pre-production model. They knew that this car would be a huge hit no matter what the reviews said.
#22520 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [cyclone4]
Dec 26, 2006 (6:55 am)
"I don't think that Lexus was overly concerned that it was a pre-production model. They knew that this car would be a huge hit no matter what the reviews said."
Well that's all well and good for Lexus corporate. Too bad that attitude hasn't filtered down to the Lexus faithful posters on these boards who are coming up with such creative excuses to wish away the last place finish in the C&D comparo.
#22521 of 24723 I think
Dec 26, 2006 (9:06 am)
we should be talking about the cars and the reviews, but we do not need to be criticizing other posters.
There's some eggnog and cookies on the table over there. Everyone help yourself!
And go ahead and spike it, if you want - as they say, it's gotta be 5 o'clock somewhere.
#22522 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [hpowders]
Dec 26, 2006 (1:47 pm)
I couldn't agree with you more hpowders. What does it exactly mean a pre-production car anyway? I am sure that Lexus would put up a car as close to production as possible considering that it is attempting to challenge the icons of th HELM class. I think the results are what they are. I could as a staunch Audi supporter argue that the comparo was not fair to Audi as they used a "2006" version of the A8L and not the 2007 A8L with the new 350 bhp V8. The results might have easily been different considering that the S-Class won by one point (and a dubios one point at that). But, I willing the let the results stand as I am sure there will be plenty more in the future. No conspiracies here.