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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2252 of 2473

#22506 of 24723 Re: Ultralow-sulfur diesel prices [syswei] by dewey

Dec 25, 2006 (8:25 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Dec 25, 2006 7:16 am)
Even running 87 octane at that rate has the diesel about $7 ahead. That adds up quickly over a few years of ownership.
 
That last line is a joke. Based on the author's figures saving $7 every 740 miles translates into saving $700 for the first 74,000 miles of driving. Whoopy Dooo! Is this what the author calls quick savings
 
Higher relative diesel prices in North America versus Europe is not only due to subsidies but also due to diesel refiniing capacity being more constrained on our side of the ocean.
 
My three favorite cars during 2006 is the MB 320 Blutec, Lexus GS450H and the BMW 335i twinturbo. All three are my favorites because of the novelty of their engines. Unfortunately diesel prices IMO diminishes the importance of the Blutec Benz in North America. And unfortunately the trunk space of the GS450H diminishes its importance as a serious mid size luxury sedan.

#22507 of 24723 Re: hpowers [esf] by dewey

Dec 25, 2006 (8:32 pm)

Replying to: esf (Dec 23, 2006 10:52 pm)
esf,
 
IMO the twin turbo engine itself is worth the price tag of a BMW 335i. On top of the engine you get fantastic handling and an interior that is vastly improved when compared to older BMW models.

#22508 of 24723 Re: Mercedes-Benz CLR 600 Concept [dewey] by lexusguy

Dec 25, 2006 (9:16 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Dec 25, 2006 8:07 pm)
Actually that Benz concept came first, in the late '60s. It was called the C111, and had a rear-mounted Wankel rotary engine. A real oddball to say the least.

#22509 of 24723 Re: The Deal of the Century! [houdini1] by merc1

Dec 25, 2006 (10:45 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Dec 24, 2006 8:05 pm)
Even you should know how silly it is to conclude that the Maybach had a "misfire" and you don't know squat about the accident itself.
 
Yes I've seen cars get ripped like that and their airbags didn't go off with the passengers standing at the side of the road.
 
Cars are concieved and manufactured by people. They are mechanical marvels with thousands of parts. They are not perfect and sometimes there is a defect. The concept should not be that hard to grasp.
 
Likewise if you don't know what makes an airbag fire in the first place (your words, not mine) then I guess that you haven't a clue about this shouldn't be too hard for me to grasp either.
 
What I also grasp is that the only reason we're having this conversation is because it was a Mercedes-Benz product involved. Period. If it was a Lexus we'd hear about about how strong the body was and how it absorbed the energy from the impact and that is why the airbags didn't fire.
 
Again, if you don't know what makes an airbag fire how in the world do you know it should have fired here?
 
M

#22510 of 24723 Re: The C&D Comparo [hpowders] by merc1

Dec 25, 2006 (10:55 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Dec 25, 2006 5:55 am)
I have never, ever seen so much whinning over a comparo. Now people are claiming to know many editors and how they're such an expert in the publishing industry so they're qualified to say the review was a joke. Knowing editors for non-automotive publications and being in the publishing industry has what exactly to do with testing cars?
 
Yes, Car and Driver, the home of more LS400 and LS430 wins than anywhere else is now clueless, biased and most of all part of some conspiracy theory to dump on Lexus.
 
Gee, the SL550 won a comparo, the S550 won a comparo, and in the Feb issue the E63 AMG beat the M5 and S6. Mercedes-Benz, uh...DCX must being paying the editors the most now because these cars can't possibly be the best in their respective classes, especially the SL.
 
The LS430 was better than the LS460L so the LS460L should have creamed the competition. This would apply to the BMW, Jaguar and Audi, not a brand new Mercedes-Benz S-Class. Can't get an explanation for that or an acknowledgement that maybe, just maybe the S-Class moved the game on.
 
This is the most classic case you'll ever see of living by the sword and dying by the sword. How can same magazine from brilliant to idiotic so fast? Did they change editors? I don't get it.
 
That said, I'm sure there will be a comparo by someone that will put the LS460L on top at some point. Maybe based on a lower priced model with the sportiest suspension setup. Oh and a production model, not a pre-production model.
 
Remember Car and Driver is being accused of trying to hide this little fact because they didn't use as much ink to tell the readers about it as they did in informing the readers that the A8 was a 2006 model. This is such nonsense it isn't even funny.
 
M

#22511 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [hpowders] by merc1

Dec 25, 2006 (10:58 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Dec 25, 2006 1:21 pm)
Would Lexus have released a pre-production LS 460 vehicle to C&D for testing unless it was reasonably sure it was an accurate representation of the actual production vehicle?
They would have to be insane if it wasn't.
 
Bingo! Yet there is utter silence when you point out that nearly every other time a LS won a comparo it was a pre-production model. How else does a magazine get a hold of a car months in advance in order to time the story with the car's actual release for sale?
 
You mean to tell me Lexus didn't check this LS460L out for defects before handing it over?
 
If you notice through out the history of C&D comparos this type of comparo comes up right around the time a new LS is released.
 
The real kicker is that if this pre-production LS460L had won the comparo we'd be hearing about how superior Lexus is. Supplying a pre-production car that wiped the matt with the competition.
 
M

#22512 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [merc1] by lexusguy

Dec 26, 2006 (12:11 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 25, 2006 10:58 pm)
The real kicker is that if this pre-production LS460L had won the comparo we'd be hearing about how superior Lexus is. Supplying a pre-production car that wiped the matt with the competition.
 
Personally, I don't really get what the big deal is. The guys in charge of the latest C&D HELC comparo were clearly looking for something that the LS460 does not possess, and because of that it lost. They didn't say it was a terrible car. If you are looking for driving excitement, look elsewhere. That sums up the LS400, the LS430, the LS460, and I have to assume that it will sum up the 2013 LS500.
 
The LS460 is better than the car it replaces. If you love the LS (to the extent that you can love a car like the LS, anyway), that should really be enough, shouldn't it? Its C&D, not The Bible. Those stopping distances are a little worrying, but I don't recall seeing 200+ foot distances anywhere else, so that could have something to do with C&D's particular testing. I could be wrong about that.

#22513 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [lexusguy] by merc1

Dec 26, 2006 (12:34 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 26, 2006 12:11 am)
I don't really take issue with anything you're saying, but I just don't get this about C&D being so brilliant one minute and idiots the next, the conspiracy theories, and so on. Every single review that doesn't put the car in the best light possible is deemed to have been written by clueless editors, while a review by Cnet is taken to be gospel. Something is wrong if you have to turn to a non-automotive publication for the best reviews on a car.
 
I think the pre-production status is what caused the long braking distances.
 
Mind you all of this is for those who used to boast about how the LS400 and LS430 whipped the competition oh so many times in years past, not you.
 
Some say C&D was looking for the sportiest car. That isn't true either otherwise the BMW or Audi would have won. They picked the car that was the best all arounder, IMO. We all know the Audi and BMW can be driven like sports cars, but the lack that ride that a lot of luxury car buyers like, especially the A8 (according to some magazines) The S is able to deliver that "ride" with better handling than the LS and that is what puts it over.
 
Truth be told I actually like this LS more than even the 1993-1994 LS400 (my previous favorite LS). I like the interior shots making their rounds in all the mag advertisments and the car does indeed set a new standard for Lexus styling out on the road. I rode next to a white LS460L the other day, dare I say it was actually good looking for a Lexus. The pipes coming through the rear bumper is nice touch, but I take it Lexus has tested this to make sure they don't melt anything.
 
Actually it was a LS460L, a Bentley Continental Flying Brick, a CLS550, S500, 3-Series, and me (CLK430) all sitting in 2 lanes waiting at a light. I live the wrong area.
 
M

#22514 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [merc1] by cyclone4

Dec 26, 2006 (5:55 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 26, 2006 12:34 am)
Mr. merc1, I actually think you are being rather reasonable here. The only thing I take issue with you on is your statement "every single review that doesn't put the car in the best light possible is deemed to have been written by clueless editors, while a review by Cnet is taken to be the gospel". I don't think that most of us LS fans are saying that all magazine reviews that do not paint a favorable picture of the new LS are clueless. However, I truly believe that C & D could have done a much more professional job in this review. To me and some others, they were extremely sneaky in not pointing out in bold black and white that this was a pre-production model. In fact, they did not even use a hyphen in the word, probably as an attempt to hide it as much as possible. On the other hand, most of us agree that the Cnet review probably went too far the other way. Let's face it. If THE best handling car is your cup of tea, then by all means go with the S550 or BMW. However, I would venture to guess that the majority of us "joe blow" drivers could not care less about THE best handling vehicle. Instead, we look for other qualities such as comfort, technological advancements, fuel economy, environmental concerns, etc., etc.
 
Again, I appreciate your honest attempt to be fair. This is in stark contrast to some others (will not name names but you can well guess) on this board.

#22515 of 24723 Re: The C&D Comparo [merc1] by hpowders

Dec 26, 2006 (6:21 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 25, 2006 10:55 pm)
All true. When you bring up significant questions like: would Lexus send a pre-production LS to C&D for testing that is significantly different than the production model in driveability? or, if the LS won the comparo with a pre-production model, would the same folks now calling foul be pointing out that hey, you know, it may have not won if a production model was supplied instead? What about the other vehicles in these comparos? Aren't pre-production models supplied for these tests all the time? If they weren't, how are the auto mags. supposed to test them in a timely manner?
 
No. It is more convenient for some to resort to name-calling as one recently did, calling me a "troll." When you don't like what you hear or don't have the intellectual capacity to respond, resort to name-calling. Nice.
 
Folks, if you have nothing to debate, please ignore my posts. I consider myself way too to get involved in stuff like that.

Messages Page 2252 of 2473

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