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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2251 of 2473

#22496 of 24723 The C&D Comparo by hpowders

Dec 25, 2006 (5:55 am)

Now that the complete C&D HELC comparo has been posted on the C&D website, the sour grapes spin has begun.
 
For example, the entire test should be considered "invalid" since C&D should have announced it was testing a pre-production model of the Lexus LS460L. I wonder, if the LS460L came in first place instead of last, would the same critic of the comparo be noting that the result might not be accurate because the LS460L could have been a pre-production model and with a "real" LS 460L, the car may have finished lower down?
 
Weren't the first 3 finishers (occupied by MB, Audi and BMW respectively) also possibly pre-production models?
Sorry, but I am not buying this great conspiracy against Lexus in the print media.
Let's face it, the car sinks or swims on its own merit. C&D is not looking to be involved in a scandal that could put it out of business.
 
The C&D reviewer found regarding the LS 460L: "its dynamics don't hold up in hard-driving situations."
 
Again from C&D regarding the LS 460L: "the variable-ratio steering was also cited for its uncommunicative nature and the electrohydraulic brakes were similarly peculiar in operation producing longer than expected stopping distances." Sounds exactly what I experienced driving the 2005 Lexus GS430-lousy brakes, lousy steering.
 
In my opinion, the LS460L does not sound like an emergency maneuver confidence builder.
 
After reading such a report, people who spin "conspiracy theories" and "it must have been a pre-production model" are living in a rather peculiar state of denial regarding their own personal safety.
 
The end result could very well prove tragic and I hope anyone who has chosen the LS460L never has to put the vehicle through an aggressive emergency maneuver, attempting to avoid a collision with these brakes and steering.
 
Please consider the Audi, MB or BMW instead.
 
Stay safe out there.

#22497 of 24723 Ultralow-sulfur diesel prices by syswei

Dec 25, 2006 (7:16 am)

It looks like the price of ULSD eats into the apparent mpg advantage of modern diesels:
 
Smooth power delivery made 35 mpg easily attainable during highway cruises, although the EPA-estimated 37 mpg remained just out of our reach. Combined with occasionally spirited city driving, our total observed fuel economy was less impressive, 24.4 mpg. This still trumps the estimated 19 city/26 highway of the E350, and with an MSRP only $1,000 higher, the $51,550 Bluetec really seems to be the better choice.
 
Each time we fueled the Bluetec we noted the price of gasoline. We recorded the average cost of 91-octane premium at $2.60/gallon and 87-octane regular at $2.49/gallon. When averaging the cost of ULSD at each fill-up, we paid an eye-opening $3.19/gallon.
 
At first glance it appears the diesel is at a disadvantage, but it actually comes out on top....Using our observed fuel prices, it costs the Bluetec driver roughly $64 while the E350 driver needs about $74 to travel the same 740 miles. Even running 87 octane at that rate has the diesel about $7 ahead. That adds up quickly over a few years of ownership.
 
link title

#22498 of 24723 Re: Ultralow-sulfur diesel prices [syswei] by houdini1

Dec 25, 2006 (11:08 am)

Replying to: syswei (Dec 25, 2006 7:16 am)
If I am not mistaken I believe diesel is cheaper than Reg. in Europe, and it should be here as well.

#22499 of 24723 Re: Ultralow-sulfur diesel prices [houdini1] by lexusguy

Dec 25, 2006 (1:08 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Dec 25, 2006 11:08 am)
If I am not mistaken I believe diesel is cheaper than Reg. in Europe, and it should be here as well.
 
Depends where. Many European countries heavily subsidize their diesel, and unsurprisingly, those countries have a much larger percentage of diesel cars on the road than their neighbors.

#22500 of 24723 The Pre-Production Question by hpowders

Dec 25, 2006 (1:21 pm)

It really is a simple question:
Would Lexus have released a pre-production LS 460 vehicle to C&D for testing unless it was reasonably sure it was an accurate representation of the actual production vehicle?
They would have to be insane if it wasn't.
 
What about the other reviewers who had issues with the brakes and steering? So there is only one 2007 LS going around for reviewing and it happens to be a pre-production vehicle which means it must be a Lexus in name only?

#22501 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [hpowders] by houdini1

Dec 25, 2006 (3:24 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Dec 25, 2006 1:21 pm)
Powders, please take a break from trolling. No one is biting. It's Christmas!

#22502 of 24723 Re: The Pre-Production Question [houdini1] by hpowders

Dec 25, 2006 (5:21 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Dec 25, 2006 3:24 pm)
Instead of lowering yourself by classlessly calling me a name, why don't you answer the question I posed?
 
Would Lexus send a pre-production vehicle for C&D to test that would be significantly different in driveability than the production model?
 
Also why would anybody pay more for an LS 460 when it has not been shown to be an improvement over the LS 430? Given the former's braking and steering (from the auto press reviews), the LS 460 appears to actually be a step backward.

#22503 of 24723 Re: Ultralow-sulfur diesel prices [houdini1] by syswei

Dec 25, 2006 (6:23 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Dec 25, 2006 11:08 am)
Lexusguy is correct, the popularity of diesel in Europe has alot to do with tax incentives.

#22504 of 24723 Re: Mercedes-Benz CLR 600 Concept [lexusguy] by dewey

Dec 25, 2006 (8:07 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 24, 2006 10:07 pm)
Eh,, that Benz looks more like an emulation of a 1973 Canadaian classic called the Bricklin.
 

#22505 of 24723 Re: Ultralow-sulfur diesel prices [lexusguy] by whahappan

Dec 25, 2006 (8:19 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 25, 2006 1:08 pm)
Yes, many European countries tax diesel less than gas which is in effect a subsidy, but as I understand it diesel is easier/cheaper to refine in the first place, so it's a complicated question.
One of the reasons it's more expensive in the winter here in the US is because diesel is almost identical to home heating oil, which is in greater demand in the winter.

Messages Page 2251 of 2473

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