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High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

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What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

#21781 of 24700 S65 by blkhemi Dec 04, 2006 (5:13 pm)
This is one of those cars that comes along that makes everyone gawk with the ? tattooed right on their foreheads.   Well, I was one of these people in in October of '04 when I dropped the hammer on my spiffy new '05 S65 AMG.   It's just one of those cars that no one absolutely needs, but absolutely has to have. 738lb-ft of torque. 0-60 in 4 secs flat all the while having you and 3-4 of your passengers wisked away in total opulance at 155 mph gov.limted speeds(189 top out, I know, I topped mine out).   I decided, however, this go'round would be different. One thing, I didn't find this current S65 to warrant such a premium over the S600 as this car has it all, standard, and is only .4 secs. to 60 slower, but interestingly enough, it out-brakes the AMG, all the while delivering better mileage.   Secondly, the S8 was already here. So, I didn't have to put up with the stiffened AMG ride and I could've bought the S8 and a loaded A8L for what one S65 runs. I know, the S65 will chew the Audi for lunch, but the Audi is still the best all-arounder I've seen in this super-sedan war. So it all made sense, altho the reasoning is in the eye of the beholder. I was once a beholder...
#21782 of 24700 Re: NY Times on the BMW M6 [lexusguy] by blkhemi Dec 04, 2006 (5:18 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 04, 2006 4:09 pm) The Jag's version of the ZF is probably the best on the market. I love the way it blips the throttle and keeps the car in the powerband.   Only DSG and Infinti's manumatic that's used in the M45 truly compares, while F1 Ferrari's, DuoSelect/CamCorsa Maseratti's, and SMG Bimmer's flat out ridiculous, and these are the supposed "fun cars".   BTW: I wonder it this is the same ZF used in Aston Martin cars? The V8 Vantage blips the throttle simiarly.
#21783 of 24700 Re: Ok, a follow up [blkhemi] by syswei Dec 04, 2006 (6:25 pm)
Replying to: blkhemi (Dec 04, 2006 5:05 pm) I see the LS being very competent, but not the #1 contender....   I will grant that the LS460 isn't a revolutionary improvement on the LS430.   But what does "#1 contender" mean, exactly? Not number one in your eyes, in the sense that you'd pick it as a purchase over its competitors. But it will be number one in other people's eyes. Possibly enough so that, once we get past the first year, it may well be, like the LS430 was, the top seller in the class in the U.S.
#21784 of 24700 designman by syswei Dec 04, 2006 (7:03 pm)
You might be interested in this: Free subscription to European Automotive Design Replies to this message: designman (Dec 05, 2006 5:41 am)
#21785 of 24700 Tag by drfill Dec 04, 2006 (7:39 pm)
When C&D's review came out you were shaking your head and hanging it low...and discrediting that review as though it was trash. Now MT compares the short wheelbase(??) LS to the S550?... and suddently you are very supportive of the article.       This is what merc1 always seems to complain about...agreeing with only those reviews that say what you like. This seems like an example of that to me.      Tag, you make it seem like I said MT is great and C&D is crap, which is not what I said.      From my post, how did you get that?      I am the first to say C&D has a history of doing the best comparisons in the business. My point is that since their facelift a few months ago, the comparos have slipped. The $18k sedan test, the previous month, was also below their high standard.      I brought up the good, and bad, notes on the LS test in MT. They said it was better for passengers than drivers.      The objective tests numbers were important to bring out, since everyone with a belly-button here has questioned the integrity of Lexus and the LS' abilities.      The Mazda3 is a better car than the VW Rabbit.      Accepting the LS460 losing to three cars the LS430 beat two years ago just isn't going to happen.      What would you have me do, Tag? Ignore any contradictions, and praise the C&D comparison?      Should I surpress the fact that the lowly SWB 460 fully matched the supreme S550, step for step?      You tell me, Tag. How should I hanle this faux pas?      I believe I showed great restraint, actually bringing up the low price of the LS as a salient point of emphasis!      As I did earlier with the IS-F, I will be the FIRST to bash Lexus, if it is warranted.      The LS deserves better treatment here.      DrFill Replies to this message: tagman (Dec 04, 2006 7:47 pm)
#21786 of 24700 Dewey by drfill Dec 04, 2006 (7:46 pm)
So why Lexus-F models? I guess Toyota is continuing its tradition of imitating Germans again by offering special limited editions.       What would you have Lexus do, not produce competitive vehicles?       Lexus' strategy from now on is to move upmarket, take advantage of the name they've built, and charge more for it.       Mercedes has been around for over a century. The question is not will Lexus do what Mercedes has done.       The question is will they do it better?        You act like you really don't want to know the answer.       I hear Toyota is entering NASCAR.......        DrFill
#21787 of 24700 Re: Tag [drfill] by tagman Dec 04, 2006 (7:47 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Dec 04, 2006 7:39 pm) I'm not sure if I misunderstood you or not...   Do you think the LS460 or LS460L is the better comparison to the S550? Or doesn't it matter.   TagMan
#21788 of 24700 Tag by drfill Dec 04, 2006 (8:01 pm)
That's not for me to answer.      Many feel the LS is not competitive with the S regardless!      The cars are 7 inches apart.      Would MT editors pay the extra $28k for those 7"?      C&D editors might, but the last time a SWB was compared, to anything, it won, and won, and won.      Is price the most important criterion? Mission? Target audience? Performance? Amenities? Looks? Resale? Reputation? Image? Or the total package?      Look at it this way. If the SWB LS460 were the same price as the S550, and matched it step for step in performance, like it did in MT, how would it be perceived? As better? Worse?      The S550 has more features than a $67k LS460. But MT didn't really like the extra features it provided. And it didn't prove superior in testing, but had an "intangible" quality. Fair enough.      The LS460 is $25k-30k less. How is it perceived now? Would Lexus shy away from a comparison? I don't think so.      DrFill Replies to this message: tagman (Dec 04, 2006 8:25 pm)
#21789 of 24700 Re: Tag [drfill] by tagman Dec 04, 2006 (8:25 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Dec 04, 2006 8:01 pm) OK, Doc... I 'm good with all that. Makes sense.   In some regard, I suppose anything could be compared with anything else.   But now that the LS is available in the long wheelbase, I just feel that it serves as a better comp. That's all I've been saying.   I understand you can theoretically compare anything with anything if you want, but the relevancy diminishes, IMO, if the models chosen are not as close as truly possible.   But, I get your point nonetheless.        TagMan

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