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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: drfill (Dec 04, 2006 11:18 am) The LS needs little more BRAKING power, other than that, I believe it beats the S in comfort/luxury and value. Tag the Man, insisted that the we compare ONLY the LS L to the S550. 
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Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 04, 2006 9:12 am) I guess now, with the F's, TMC is doing the variant thing to the Lexus line up. |
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Replying to: drfill (Dec 04, 2006 11:18 am) You three Lexus Musketeers have done wonders in defending the good and reputable name of Lexus despite all the mud slinging going on in this forum and outside this forum (auto journalists) regarding the LS Touche and good work indeed. If you think the LS reviews are bad you aint seen the latest review of the MB AMG S65 by CNNMoney/Fortune Magazine.Coincidentally Wall Street Journal could not stop raving today about the S65 while another another business mag/website today pooh poohs the S65. I guess we shouldn't be taking auto reviews in business magazines too seriously? Blkhemi I think you are very wise in picking the MB S600 over a MB AMG S65. A MB S65 is nothing more then a elephant(a large LWB luxury sedan) that wants to sprint and be and be as nimble as a leopard ( a sporty roadster). The S65 is proof that such a combo is not possible. Tagman at least you picked the right car for performance--a Porshce 911. Your car is certainly more fun to drive than a MB AMG S65. Whether you want to take CNN/Fortune seriously in terms of an auto review is up to you. But if you do here are some riveting details of their horrid AMG S65 review : CNNMoney/Fortune PHOENIXVILLE, Penn. (CNNMoney.com) -- Some people, no matter how much they have, want to be sure they have more than everyone else. If you're one of those people, the high-priced Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG is the car for you - though you may regret your obsession with rushing to the top. This is a big car, though. Trying to make it into a sports sedan is a futile effort. True, it feels well controlled in turns. The automatically adjusting suspension stiffens up under pressure so there's surprisingly little body lean. But, beyond goosing the gas pedal, is it fun to drive? No, not really. It packs a punch, but at such a cost. It's not just the $40,000 between this and the V-12-powered S600, or even the $90,000 between this and the V-8-powered S550. It's as if someone drank a third of your bottle of Courvoisier and filled it back up with Night Train. The S65 is brimming with raw power, but the modifications make it feel, ultimately, more ordinary to drive than the car on which it's based. With its heavy and wide wheels and tires, and the power steering cranked up to compensate, the S65's steering is flighty and numb at low speeds. As speed increases, and the power steering boost is ratcheted down, steering feel is much better. But you feel bumps and, over rough pavement, you hear the sizzle of rubber over asphalt and the "whap" of expansion joints. In the S-class's opulent cabin, the noise is grating and out of place. The S65 doesn't have the advanced seven-speed transmission you get in other S-class cars, either. With 738 foot-pounds of torque, the S65's engine would make cogmeat salad out of that fancy machinery. So it comes with a 5-speed transmission. Again, feeling shifts from an automatic transmission is nothing unusual. But when those shifts are virtually imperceptible in versions costing tens of thousands less, you begin wondering just what it is you're paying for. Very few are fortunate to even be able to consider the S65 AMG. But there's a lesson here for everyone. More power doesn't always mean more enjoyment
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The biggest flaw in the M6 is its SMG transmission. Unfortunately BMW engineers at this point of time cannot make the SMG as capable as VW/Audi's DSG tranny. These criticisms are trivial compared with the M6’s one absolute failure: its transmission. The seven-speed sequential manual gearbox, intended to mimic a paddle-shifted Formula One racecar, is neither a good automatic nor a competent manual. After a week of frustration, I asked for a second week with the car to see if I could eventually make peace with the transmission. Fact is, when driven hard (and this is a car that seems to relish being pushed to its considerable limits), the gearbox shifts crisply. But if you ask it to perform mundane daily duties like driving to a grocery store — or nearly any task at which a two-speed Chevy Powerglide from the 1960s would excel — the S.M.G. fails miserably. Shifts are harsh and come at unexpected times. Starting from a stop is an exercise in lurch management. SOURCE: NY TIMES
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Replying to: drfill (Dec 04, 2006 11:18 am) This is what merc1 always seems to complain about...agreeing with only those reviews that say what you like. This seems like an example of that to me. TagMan
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Replying to: dewey (Dec 04, 2006 1:39 pm) Fun is exactly what I'm having with this car. But, in all honesty. I'd love to have that AMG S65 or even an S600 parked next to it. But that's not gonna happen anytime soon. I don't have blkhemi's resources.  BTW, I noticed a pic on the Porsche website that is exactly like the one I purchased, so I'll post it so you'll know what mine looks like. Here it is:  No silver for me...speed yellow all the way.  TagMan |
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Replying to: dewey (Dec 04, 2006 3:04 pm)
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I reported a while back that I had stopped at a Lexus dealership to take a look at an LS460 first hand. Well today, the dealer called me up and asked if I'd like a test drive seeing how the deal fell through on this vehicle. Well, quite naturally, I abiliged the offer and set up an appointment. Upon first impression: The Lexus-classic near inaudible-at-idle engine is still there. The gauges are very legible, again another Lexus novel. Once out onto the street, the first few feet tells me that this is not a LS430. The car seems tighter just be travelling at walking pace speeds. You just got a since of wallow on the brink of acceleration from the 430. The brakes, well they're reassuring, and are on the grabby side. I hate to say it, but I do concur with those who've said so. Not so grabby as the pre-'07 E-Class Benz, but grabby enough and on par with the V8 GS. The steering is hugely improved over the predecessor. I believe Lexus redesigned the whole rack and pinion set-up. It works wonderfully. The ride is vastly better, still with those slight secondary motions that plagued the previous car. The car seems more controlled on the whole tho, particularly on fast humpbacks that would've sent the old car into panic VSC mode. The handling, while still at the back of the pack, is improved just as well. But this is still an LS, it won't feel comfortable cruising the autobahn at 100+. But that's not it's core intention. The build quality is the Lexus norm, impeccable. But it no longer is the leader, as witnessed again by the expanse of hard plastics and the wide panel gap tolerances. The materials don't seem to be an outright advance over the 430. As great as the new LS is over the old one, there is still not enough of an advancement to warrant some to become pro-Lexus. Has this car became too perfect? Nah, Lexus just didn't want to ruin a winning recipe. And that's great. But in this country, that may prove to be a cardinal sin as witnessed by some of the best selling cars going from on top on the world to a has-been at the snap of a finger because of continuing the status quo, without change. And in this hotly contested category, a constant evolution is mandatory. And for this, I see the LS being very competent, but not the #1 contender....
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Replying to: tagman (Dec 04, 2006 3:36 pm) Would you agree that the most appropriate future comparison would be for a LS460L vs a S450? And for the S600hL vs (depending on where it is priced) S550 or S600? After all, if you want wheelbases to be roughly comparable to make a comparo "fair", why not engine displacement too?
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