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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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You can easily make the case that a 2007 A8 would've won that C&D comparo, with the new 350HP engine. But you'd also have to make the case that the LS460 is not as good as the LS430, which beat these vehicles before, which doesn't make sense. I don't know anymore.  DrFill |
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Replying to: dewey (Dec 03, 2006 7:00 pm) It is a lot of babble that cannot be substantiated. But the fact is the middle tier market for cars/autos is growing slowest while the lowest tier and higest tier are growing fastest. Mistakenly my prior post includes LPS as middle tier. That is not the case at all and I apologize for that. |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Dec 03, 2006 6:05 pm) I dont think I would buy one after hearing about the shattering moonroof problem though. That kind of thing would make me leave a brand for good, Lexus included. |
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Lexus will launch a performance brand in late 2007 to compete with Mercedes' AMG and BMW's M divisions. Lexus will start with an IS sedan equipped with a 425-hp, 5.0-liter V-8. The engine is a retuned version of the LS 600h L hybrid's engine, dealer sources said. The sedan will be called the IS-F. It will debut at the Detroit auto show in January. Lexus likely will carry that nomenclature into other high-performance Lexus vehicles, a dealer said. He said a GS-F sedan and IS-F coupe likely will follow. The IS-F - "F" as in "fast" - will go on sale in December 2007 and sticker in the low $50,000 range, sources said. Lexus told dealers of the plans at a recent national meeting. Toyota Motor Co. filed for a trademark for "IS-F" on Nov. 8 with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. It also filed for a trademark for a stylized "F" logo on Oct. 9. A dealer source said Yamaha is tuning the IS-F engine's heads for more power. Brembo will be the brake supplier. source Automotive News |
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Replying to: syswei (Dec 04, 2006 7:52 am) Lexus will start with an IS sedan equipped with a 425-hp, 5.0-liter V-8. The engine is a retuned version of the LS 600h L hybrid's engine, dealer sources said. Consider that Toyota's "TRD" vehicles are mostly cosmetic features. With regards to the IS, just raising the HP won't be enough. Serious suspension modifications will be necessary, IMO, and I've yet to see TMC come through with BMW-matching suspension and handling. MY bet is tons of HP and a cosmetic appearance package to go with it. Unfortunately, many buyers will likely find it is terrific enough even without the handling of a BMW, and will still buy it over the 3-series, just due to the its HP rating and appearance package. TagMan |
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Replying to: tagman (Dec 04, 2006 8:35 am) |
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Replying to: tagman (Dec 04, 2006 8:35 am) I think Lexus knows what they have to do. The very short lived "L-tuned" package for the GS added no power at all, and very little in terms of cosmetics. The big change was to the suspension. Also, the fact that they are looking to outside help like having Yamaha tune the engine and Brembo do the brakes is a good sign that somebody other than Toyota will be doing the suspension tuning. Toyota already has an established relationship with Lotus, for example, and they know suspensions. I think the IS-F and GS-F will be like the C and E class AMGs, enormous power with very solid handling. I don't think they will be track ready like the M5 and RS6. I really hope this convinces Infiniti to make a similar move.
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IMO Infiniti would be a far better contender in producing exclusive limited production performance cars than Lexus. Unlike Lexus, Infiniti has proven with the M and G that they can produce both a chassis and a drivetrain that can easily compete with the Germans. Also the Nissan GT-R shows what potential Infiniti has in producing exciting cars. So why Lexus-F models? I guess Toyota is continuing its tradition of imitating Germans again by offering special limited editions. Apparently that is where the growth is according to a Wall Street Journal article: The growth of the luxury vehicle market is great news for auto makers with strong brands in the segment. But it presents a problem. If one of every five people on the road is driving a "luxury" car, the mystique of exclusivity that gives luxury brands a good chunk of their pricing power risks dilution. This is why there are cars like the S65 AMG and it's why you will see more such vehicles -- although not too many -- in coming years. The S65 AMG -- and rival high-performance models such as the BMW M5 or the Audi R8 -- represent the strategy by which "mass luxury" brands, as opposed to more exclusive nameplates like Rolls-Royce and Ferrari, will offer something special to customers whose financial capacity and discerning tastes set them apart from the merely affluent. The S65 AMG is very much a connoisseur's car. The real point of this car isn't the top speed or horsepower -- or even the city fuel economy of 13 miles per gallon. The magic of the S65 AMG is in the torque. The big AMG's V12 delivers 738 pound-feet of torque at a low 2000 revolutions per minute SOURCE: WALL STREET JOURNAL DEC 4 2006
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Replying to: syswei (Dec 04, 2006 7:52 am)  But, regarding the IS, give me a call when the stick gets thur! Same goes for the "F-Class". Mercedes makes plenty of super-fast slushmobiles! All they get is a yawn from me. The market needs an animal meant to be driven! They should approach it the same way Chevy does the 'Vette/Z06. Fast doesn't always equal fun.  I hear the Z06 is fun!  DrFill |
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