High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#21579 of 24700 Re: Tag [jcoby] by dewey Nov 30, 2006 (7:03 pm)
Replying to: jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 6:49 pm) I hear what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense. But as Tagman said all car companies are measured by these new standards. Similarily reliability ratings change with time. Today a below average reliability rating in Consumers Reports does not neccessarily mean a model is a lemon. While in the 70s or 80s a below average rating almost guaranteed that a model is a lemon. Does it make sense for a 2004 MB M Class owner to boast that his auto is very reliable compared to 1970s models? No! Does it make sense to say Toyotas do not have the largest number of least safe autos because prior year safety standards were not so strict? No! If you are going to evaluate a car then you got to use the tougher criteria (reliability or safety) of today and not some softer criteria of yesterday. Replies to this message: jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 7:18 pm) jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 7:32 pm) dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:37 pm) syswei (Nov 30, 2006 7:45 pm) and 1 more... tagman (Nov 30, 2006 7:51 pm) and 5 more...
#21580 of 24700 Re: Tag [dewey] by jcoby Nov 30, 2006 (7:09 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Nov 30, 2006 6:59 pm) Exactly! Although BMW performed very poorly overall in the rear-end crash protection test by the IIHS, the other BMW crash test ratings are stellar and I certainly would feel extremely safe in a BMW. Just like Toyota/Lexus, BMW will have some "Top Safety Pick" models once the head restraint/seat design issue is addressed in the next couple of years. A poor showing in one of many tests does not make a car unsafe, as both of us are aware of
#21581 of 24700 Re: Tag [tagman] by syswei Nov 30, 2006 (7:12 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 6:55 pm) there should be no confusion that these new measurements are significant enough to lower Toyota/Lexus's ratings. ALL manufacturers were subjected to the same tests, not just Toyota/Lexus. Bottom line... a crack in the Toyota/Lexus armor... the bubble is leaking. Shouldn't you be saying the same about BMW? It didn't fare so well in rear crash ratings either.
#21582 of 24700 Tony by drfill Nov 30, 2006 (7:16 pm)
I found Tagman`s pictures of the S vs LS dash to be a good guide, and wonder what your thoughts are on the comparison??? Anyway just a faint supporter of the LS and a strong supporter of you Tony Thanks for the luv, Tony! Where would I be without my people, my fans? Probably building a new LS board! I am no fan of the 7's interior, and the S apes the 7 a little too much for my taste. If you're looking for something new, or better, don't look thur! BMW should be oh so flattered. If anyone wants to see a real interior, just check out pages 28 & 29 of this month's C&D. You can say what you want, but at the end of the day, Lexus can sell the hell out of a car! That Kool-Aid sure is refreshing right about now! Ahhhhhhhh! Sweet! DrFill
#21583 of 24700 Re: Tag [dewey] by jcoby Nov 30, 2006 (7:18 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:03 pm) Of course "all car companies are measured by these new standards." I just took great offense at the conjecture that Toyota and Lexus vehicles are some of the most unsafe vehicles on the road because of the poor performance in the rear-end crash protection test when many of the competing European makes scored no better on these same tests. Toyota/Lexus still manufactures very safe vehicles overall, as do Audi, BMW, and Mercedes. Just please don't say that a Toyota/Lexus model is unsafe when a competing European model scores the same or worse on the same test.
#21584 of 24700 Re: Tag [tagman] by brightness04 Nov 30, 2006 (7:22 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 6:51 pm) In case you did not notice, they are still rated "Good," the highest rating available. That is a far cry from the spin you gave: "RANK AT BOTTOM OF CRASH-SAFETY STUDY"
#21586 of 24700 Hemi by drfill Nov 30, 2006 (7:26 pm)
What was said is that the acres of GM-grade hard plastic can be acceptable in a 300C HEMI at a pricepoint of 32k. It is grossly unacceptable on a $61k car, let alone a fully-plushed $92k model. Definitely don't want to read a post like that more than once. It will definitely have to be rewritten, and neutered! You are implying the interior plastics of the LS ape those of the 300. Having driven both cars, I know you are wrong. That was your point, no? The two cars do not belong in the same sentence. Period. Funny how you can't spell the word "credibility"...... Please move on. DrFill
#21587 of 24700 High end Luxury Comparison by shop123 Nov 30, 2006 (7:26 pm)
I had a BMW 745Li that was a constant headache. After a grueling Lemon Law process, BMW was forced to take the vehicle back . It was an electronic nightmare. The vehicle drove better than ANY luxury car on the market. HOWEVER, if you are at all interested in the electronics being reliable & functional - skip the BMW. The service history was appalling (at least 1-2 visits a month). The car was in the shop more than it was out. And, the icing on the cake...BMW feels that the number of repairs is a resaonable sacrifice to make for the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Give me a break. They can't fix the car and make no apologies! They have had the same problems with their vehicles for YEARS, and have no desire to correct them. In my search for a replacement vehicle, I have narrowed it down to the Lexus LS460 L and the MB S550. The MB is more impressive for handling, but it is $15K more than the Lexus with less options. In addition, I am factoring in the reliability, service history and consumer satisfaction ratings. At the present time, Lexus takes the cake, hands down. Unfortunately, I will have to sacrifice a few things. The body roll and responsiveness of the vehicle are disappointing. There is no "perfect car". You have to sacrifice something. I think each person has to draw their own lines at what that will be. Replies to this message: dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:32 pm) anthonyp (Nov 30, 2006 7:39 pm) shop123 (Nov 30, 2006 7:45 pm) esf (Nov 30, 2006 8:20 pm) and 2 more... topspin628 (Nov 30, 2006 7:59 pm) shop123 (Nov 30, 2006 8:05 pm) dewey (Nov 30, 2006 8:10 pm) and 3 more... hpowders (Nov 30, 2006 8:21 pm) and 5 more...
#21588 of 24700 Re: Tag [dewey] by jcoby Nov 30, 2006 (7:32 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:03 pm) "In fact that would be almost as ludicrous as saying Toyotas do not have the largest number of least safe autos based on prior year safety ratings." What data did you base this conjecture on; it is not supported by the IIHS. Again, the rear-crash protection results are only one of several tests performed by the IIHS and do not invalidate any of the other tests performed by the IIHS. The Toyota/Lexus vehicles in question all have "Good" ratings in every type of crash test EXCEPT for rear-end protection (just like several competing European models), so I do not know how you would conclude that Toyota/Lexus has the largest number of unsafe vehicles when even the IIHS has not even made such a statement. Replies to this message: dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:37 pm) syswei (Nov 30, 2006 7:45 pm) dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:53 pm) tagman (Nov 30, 2006 7:51 pm) dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:57 pm) and 3 more... jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 8:25 pm)