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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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People are still pulling hair here. I did my last peace-making post to keep us from becoming AutoSpies. I fear that this will if the bickering continues. My factual, informative, tasty, to-the-point analyses of the cars in question: Lexus LS- For those who would rather be driven than drive themselves BMW 7 Series- The polar opposite of the LS. For those who want a big sedan, but would rather drive than be driven. Audi A8- For those who want to drive in all seasons, and for those who want something unique and kind of rare. Mercedes S-Class- You can both drive and be driven in this one; in high style, I may add. Not that the others aren't stylish. But this one takes the bling factor to a new level. All have key sell points, and besides the 7 Series, within the other three, none are truly better vehicles than the next. If I could pick one to drive, I'd pick the Audi S8, and if I could have one to be driven in, it would be the Mercedes S600, but with different wheels. Standard wheels are extremely boring. '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
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Replying to: drfill (Nov 30, 2006 11:50 am) And what exactly are you talking about, Toyota/Lexus makes unsafe cars? Never heard such a thing! Gee, Doc, just because you never heard of it, doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I was only posting the FACTS & the TRUTH, that's all. That IS EXACTLY what posting at a high standard is all about. Here's THE PROOF & the link!!! TOYOTA MODELS RANK AT BOTTOM OF CRASH-SAFETY STUDY Toyota Motor Corp., whose vehicles earn top marks for buyer satisfaction, has more models than any other automaker ranked at the bottom of a crash-protection study. Toyota and its LEXUS division accounted for nine of 16 vehicles with "acceptable," "marginal" or "poor" rear- impact protection, lowering their overall rating, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety said today. Toyota models rank at bottom of crash-safety study Looks to me like more air is leaking out of that Toyota bubble. Well now you can't say "never heard such a thing" (but will CR?)... ...and you can still know darn well that my posts are at that "high standard" you speak of, and have honest credibility. TagMan
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Replying to: blkhemi (Nov 30, 2006 2:13 pm) Amen. TagMan |
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Replying to: drfill (Nov 30, 2006 11:50 am) "DOH" Do you mean the word as used by James Finlayson, mister double-take, in the old Laurel and Hardy flicks as a sign of exasperation or do you actually mean "duh" which needs no explanation. A small ting, but I really would like to know. |
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Replying to: esf (Nov 30, 2006 2:49 pm) No reason to fear. These are genuine disagreements which will surely happen at times . . . but that does not mean it is bickering at all. I see a little poking, but mostly lots of personal respect, valuable information and credible opinions going in both directions here... this Edmunds forum is light years above AutoSpies! BTW, thanks for your supplemental analyses. TagMan |
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I've seen but not yet driven the new LS but will post my views on my car as a current owner of the 05 version. (by all accounts, the genetics haven't changed much on the 07) This car is as bullet proof as they get. All electronics work as they should and are easy to use. The ride is soft and serene. Now for the minuses: The seats are too flat and not supportive, the steering is loose and unresponsive and the handling is a bit sloppy. The driving experience is uninvolving. BMW has great driving dynamics. The seats are terrific and I think that they are really the technology leaders in engines while having the best suspensions. Did you see the Edmunds test here on the new 335 coupe? 0-60 in 4.8! Wait until they get the turbo 8s going. One thing about BMW is that they always understate their speed. No bash on Lexus as I think they build incredibly reliable, luxurious and easy to live with machines but they have become the worlds best Buick. I do like the evolution in styling though. I saw a new ES and to me it looked as good as the new LS- a good thing for the ES but I'm not so sure it's good for the LS. As for winter driving, I think that the BMW dynamics and all of the electronic nannies make it a fine bad weather car as long as you don't have summer tires on it and a really good winter car with snows. I had a 3 series that was unstoppable in snow with winter tires. (I think that the driver is the key to snow driving anyway as I've seen more than my share of SUVs flipped or in accidents during storms). |
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Replying to: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 3:00 pm) (Straight from the horses mouth) link title Seventeen other vehicles would have won 2007 awards if they had good seat/head restraint designs. Toyota could have claimed nine TOP SAFETY PICK awards, including three Lexus winners. Honda could have picked up four additional awards, including one for an Acura. "Protection in rear crashes is an area where many vehicles lag behind in safety," Lund notes. "As manufacturers continue to improve seat/head restraints, we expect to see more winners." AND... ALSO-RANS Rear protection isn't good These vehicles earned good ratings in front and side crash tests. They have electronic stability control, standard or optional. They would have won 2007 TOP SAFETY PICK awards if their seat/head restraints also had earned good ratings. Instead rear crash protection is rated acceptable, marginal, or poor (Honda reports that the seat/head restraints in the only Civic model with electronic stability control wouldn’t be rated good). Acceptable rear protection Audi A3 BMW 3-series 4dr Lexus IS 250/350 Marginal rear protection Acura TL Honda Odyssey Lexus ES 350 Lexus GS 350 Toyota Camry Toyota FJ Cruiser Toyota Prius Toyota RAV4 Poor rear protection Honda Accord 4dr Infiniti M35 Nissan Quest Toyota Avalon Toyota Sienna
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Replying to: blkhemi (Nov 30, 2006 2:17 pm)  Not even close. What a company invented 100+ years ago is irrelevent. Speaking of idiotic features, MB will do well re-think its COMMAND interface. The S550 has more safety, better use of it's optional features, and of course the brand prestige to pull such lofty numbers. The new S class has not been independently tested by the "crashing houses" yet. The historical record of S class was not especially good at all. As to prestige, well, all that discounting and lease subsidies across MB's model line up answer that question. Of course people care about value, that's why MB offers discounts and lease subsidies, dah!
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Replying to: jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 4:24 pm) Sorry, but just because the standards for safety have been raised doesn't mean we can say Toyota/Lexus WOULD have won if somehow they just didn't include one or two of the safety measurements. THAT would be a spin. The tests are now inclusive of all the current different measurements, and combined give a more comprehensive perspective of a vehicle's safety. This comprehensive result is now the new standard for measurement. Interesting, that once the new standard was put into effect we clearly see the results that Toyota/Lexus vehicles receive most of the worst ratings for crash-safety. Like it or not, that's the way it now is. It's of little value to say "could haves and would haves", and call the real test a spin. TagMan
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Replying to: jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 4:24 pm) |
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