High End Luxury Cars

24685 messages, Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 4:40 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#21558 of 24685 Re: Tag [drfill] by hpowders Nov 30, 2006 (2:06 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Nov 30, 2006 11:41 am) But the last 3 wins don't mean a ting! Because: It's all about: "What have you done for me lately?" And regarding the LS460 the answer appears to be: "Not very much."
#21559 of 24685 Doc, by blkhemi Nov 30, 2006 (2:13 pm)
If you thought that what I said was "less than credible", then for sure the old noggin is working overtime. Re-read the post. And fully this time preferably without the usual cynicism and bias. Not once did I compare the 300 to the LS. No, the current 300 is not an LS460. We all know this. And you know good and well that I didn't directly compare the two. What was said is that the acres of GM-grade hard plastic can be acceptable in a 300C HEMI at a pricepoint of 32k. It is grossly unacceptable on a $61k car, let alone a fully-plushed $92k model. With each passing post, your "crediabilty" of being the best Lexus spokesman in the past 17 years rings through clearly... Replies to this message: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 3:04 pm)
#21560 of 24685 Mr. Bright by blkhemi Nov 30, 2006 (2:17 pm)
Sorry that you feel that the company that actually invented the automobile hasn't done anything in the past 100 years. They actually invented the best thing since, well, the wheel the automobile sits on. And for the money, just having a park feature and a few idiotic options doesn't equate to a car "taking the competition by storm. The S550 has more safety, better use of it's optional features, and of course the brand prestige to pull such lofty numbers. The cheaper LS460 is here, yet the M-O-M sales of the S550 has risen 8-12%, respectively, with the passing months it's been on sale.... Value?, the public ain't buying it anymore... Replies to this message: brightness04 (Nov 30, 2006 5:53 pm) blkhemi (Nov 30, 2006 6:43 pm)
#21561 of 24685 MORE, Shorter Analyses by esf Nov 30, 2006 (2:49 pm)
People are still pulling hair here. I did my last peace-making post to keep us from becoming AutoSpies. I fear that this will if the bickering continues. My factual, informative, tasty, to-the-point analyses of the cars in question: Lexus LS- For those who would rather be driven than drive themselves BMW 7 Series- The polar opposite of the LS. For those who want a big sedan, but would rather drive than be driven. Audi A8- For those who want to drive in all seasons, and for those who want something unique and kind of rare. Mercedes S-Class- You can both drive and be driven in this one; in high style, I may add. Not that the others aren't stylish. But this one takes the bling factor to a new level. All have key sell points, and besides the 7 Series, within the other three, none are truly better vehicles than the next. If I could pick one to drive, I'd pick the Audi S8, and if I could have one to be driven in, it would be the Mercedes S600, but with different wheels. Standard wheels are extremely boring. '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330 Replies to this message: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 3:39 pm)
#21562 of 24685 Re: Tag [drfill] by tagman Nov 30, 2006 (3:00 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Nov 30, 2006 11:50 am) I expect better from you. I hold you, and other top posters, to a high standard. And what exactly are you talking about, Toyota/Lexus makes unsafe cars? Never heard such a thing! Gee, Doc, just because you never heard of it, doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I was only posting the FACTS & the TRUTH, that's all. That IS EXACTLY what posting at a high standard is all about. Here's THE PROOF & the link!!! TOYOTA MODELS RANK AT BOTTOM OF CRASH-SAFETY STUDY Toyota Motor Corp., whose vehicles earn top marks for buyer satisfaction, has more models than any other automaker ranked at the bottom of a crash-protection study. Toyota and its LEXUS division accounted for nine of 16 vehicles with "acceptable," "marginal" or "poor" rear- impact protection, lowering their overall rating, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety said today. Toyota models rank at bottom of crash-safety study Looks to me like more air is leaking out of that Toyota bubble. Well now you can't say "never heard such a thing" (but will CR?)... ...and you can still know darn well that my posts are at that "high standard" you speak of, and have honest credibility. TagMan Replies to this message: jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 4:24 pm) tagman (Nov 30, 2006 6:13 pm) brightness04 (Nov 30, 2006 6:25 pm) and 3 more... jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 6:49 pm) and 18 more... jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 7:46 pm) and 3 more... houdini1 (Nov 30, 2006 6:16 pm)
#21563 of 24685 Re: Doc, [blkhemi] by tagman Nov 30, 2006 (3:04 pm)
Replying to: blkhemi (Nov 30, 2006 2:13 pm) What was said is that the acres of GM-grade hard plastic can be acceptable in a 300C HEMI at a pricepoint of 32k. It is grossly unacceptable on a $61k car, let alone a fully-plushed $92k model. Amen. TagMan
#21564 of 24685 Re: Tag [drfill] by hpowders Nov 30, 2006 (3:36 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Nov 30, 2006 11:50 am) Point of clarification: "DOH" Do you mean the word as used by James Finlayson, mister double-take, in the old Laurel and Hardy flicks as a sign of exasperation or do you actually mean "duh" which needs no explanation. A small ting, but I really would like to know.
#21565 of 24685 Re: MORE, Shorter Analyses [esf] by tagman Nov 30, 2006 (3:39 pm)
Replying to: esf (Nov 30, 2006 2:49 pm) People are still pulling hair here. I did my last peace-making post to keep us from becoming AutoSpies. I fear that this will if the bickering continues. No reason to fear. These are genuine disagreements which will surely happen at times . . . but that does not mean it is bickering at all. I see a little poking, but mostly lots of personal respect, valuable information and credible opinions going in both directions here... this Edmunds forum is light years above AutoSpies! BTW, thanks for your supplemental analyses. TagMan
#21566 of 24685 LS is what it is by topspin628 Nov 30, 2006 (3:50 pm)
I've seen but not yet driven the new LS but will post my views on my car as a current owner of the 05 version. (by all accounts, the genetics haven't changed much on the 07) This car is as bullet proof as they get. All electronics work as they should and are easy to use. The ride is soft and serene. Now for the minuses: The seats are too flat and not supportive, the steering is loose and unresponsive and the handling is a bit sloppy. The driving experience is uninvolving. BMW has great driving dynamics. The seats are terrific and I think that they are really the technology leaders in engines while having the best suspensions. Did you see the Edmunds test here on the new 335 coupe? 0-60 in 4.8! Wait until they get the turbo 8s going. One thing about BMW is that they always understate their speed. No bash on Lexus as I think they build incredibly reliable, luxurious and easy to live with machines but they have become the worlds best Buick. I do like the evolution in styling though. I saw a new ES and to me it looked as good as the new LS- a good thing for the ES but I'm not so sure it's good for the LS. As for winter driving, I think that the BMW dynamics and all of the electronic nannies make it a fine bad weather car as long as you don't have summer tires on it and a really good winter car with snows. I had a 3 series that was unstoppable in snow with winter tires. (I think that the driver is the key to snow driving anyway as I've seen more than my share of SUVs flipped or in accidents during storms).
#21567 of 24685 Re: Tag [tagman] by jcoby Nov 30, 2006 (4:24 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 3:00 pm) This is actually a perfect example of incorrect reporting and spin. This article that you provided to us does not accurately reflect the data from the IIHS itself. The article clearly gives the casual and incurious reader the impression that Toyota and Lexus vehicles perform poorly in crash tests. However, the rear protection crash study is more concerned with head restraint and seat design and is only one of many tests that the IIHS performs on a vehicle. Most Toyota and Lexus vehicles have a "Good" rating for OVERALL crash protection. If Toyota/Lexus vehicles simply had better head restraint and seat designs, the manufacturer would have more "Top Safety Pick" vehicles than any other manufacturer. See for yourself: (Straight from the horses mouth) link title Seventeen other vehicles would have won 2007 awards if they had good seat/head restraint designs. Toyota could have claimed nine TOP SAFETY PICK awards, including three Lexus winners. Honda could have picked up four additional awards, including one for an Acura. "Protection in rear crashes is an area where many vehicles lag behind in safety," Lund notes. "As manufacturers continue to improve seat/head restraints, we expect to see more winners." AND... ALSO-RANS Rear protection isn't good These vehicles earned good ratings in front and side crash tests. They have electronic stability control, standard or optional. They would have won 2007 TOP SAFETY PICK awards if their seat/head restraints also had earned good ratings. Instead rear crash protection is rated acceptable, marginal, or poor (Honda reports that the seat/head restraints in the only Civic model with electronic stability control wouldn’t be rated good). Acceptable rear protection Audi A3 BMW 3-series 4dr Lexus IS 250/350 Marginal rear protection Acura TL Honda Odyssey Lexus ES 350 Lexus GS 350 Toyota Camry Toyota FJ Cruiser Toyota Prius Toyota RAV4 Poor rear protection Honda Accord 4dr Infiniti M35 Nissan Quest Toyota Avalon Toyota Sienna Replies to this message: tagman (Nov 30, 2006 6:13 pm) brightness04 (Nov 30, 2006 6:25 pm) blkhemi (Nov 30, 2006 6:46 pm) tagman (Nov 30, 2006 6:51 pm) and 1 more... jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 6:49 pm) tagman (Nov 30, 2006 6:55 pm) and 1 more... dewey (Nov 30, 2006 6:59 pm) and 1 more... dewey (Nov 30, 2006 7:03 pm) and 12 more... jcoby (Nov 30, 2006 7:46 pm) tagman (Nov 30, 2006 7:56 pm) houdini1 (Nov 30, 2006 8:18 pm) and 1 more... houdini1 (Nov 30, 2006 6:16 pm)