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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24698 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 1:20 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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I just got my january car and driver in, and read the following letter in the "backfire" section. "I don't care what kind of tires the Lexus LS 460 was wearing when you tested it. A 209 foot braking distance from 70 mph to standstill is simply unacceptable for a Lexus flagship. A few pages later in your "full size SUV comparo" the worst braking competitor-Lincoln's 6119 pound Navigator-managed to stop in an identical 209 feet. Hell, I can buy a 5629-pound Range Rover that stops in 165 feet. Relentlessly pursuing perfection? Lexus should be embarrassed." Dylan Brooks Stamford, Connecticut Car and driver responds "We tested an LS460L this month [page 102] and recorded a not-much-better 207 feet." Ed It is laughable, and if we are going to give Lexus a brake because it was a pre-production model, then we should maybe give one to Audi since it was a no more production 06 model. The 07 has 15 more horses.
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with all due respect, you lost some credibility when you said the SC was fun around the autocross track. I have so many metaphors for that, my head hurts. Unfortunately, none that I can repeat here. Anyway, Buy what you love, not what somebody else loves. As far as the Lexus being the poor man's S class, I'll say this. If your not with the one you love, love the one your with. |
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Well said. Just commented that I was surprised at it's ability, considering the fact that the way people talk, the car should fall to pieces when pushed, which it didn't. No tire squeal, no oversteer, no hyper-roll. And I gave it as good a shove as possible while keeping it on course. Can't make an absolute judgement from an intense 30-45 sec. ride, doh. DrFill
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Replying to: drfill (Nov 29, 2006 8:05 pm)
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Replying to: drfill (Nov 29, 2006 7:33 pm) If you want a $90-100k Lexus LS, that's fine, it'll have more features than the S550, much less an A8/750. Doc, for days now you've been mentioning all these additional features found on the LS460, that are not found on the competition. And here you go again with these quotes, up above, from your post this evening. Other than the highly criticized and contraversial self-park thing, list all those important additional features out for us, cause I am not so sure that the list is nearly as significant as you seem to keep implying. But I'm open minded. So, bring on the list. TagMan |
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Replying to: esf (Nov 29, 2006 7:41 pm) Interesting perspective. Regarding the Jag's "underwhelming" 300hp. Consider this interesting comparison.... the new high-performing BMW 335 coupe weighs in at 3571 lbs. and is rated at 300 hp / 300 lbs. of torque. The XJ Jag, on the other hand is aircraft aluminum and weighs in at only 3726 lbs. That's only the difference of one 155 lb. passenger. It's rating is 300 hp / 310 lbs. of torque. VERY close in terms of HP / weight ratios, as the JAG comes in a little over 12 lbs per hp and the BMW comes in at just under 12 lbs. per hp. Just a little perspective. When I drove the new XK the other day (before I decided on the 911 CS) I was amazed at the spirited performance of what is essentially the same 300 hp engine placed in yet again another aircraft aluminum Jaguar. TagMan |
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That would be quite a post, sir! C&D said it best, when they gave the LS a 10 for lux features, and the S550 an 8. But the Exec Pkg., the 9" DVD Player in the headliner, and of course the Auto-Park are a nice 3-some. Good night, Tag! DrFill
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Replying to: drfill (Nov 29, 2006 9:17 pm) Later, Doc. Get a good night's sleep so that tomorrow, you can list some of them for me. The rear multimedia is not exclusive to the LS. And it's cheaper in the LS. For example, even the Jaguar has two beautiful color monitors built into the headrests, much better than the single screen in the LS's headliner, as more commonly seen in SUV's. The auto-park? That's it??!! That's your list?? You can do better than THAT! Can't you? TagMan |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Nov 29, 2006 5:24 pm) Isn't that amazing? A company with only 17yrs of history is making cars that are far better engineered/manufactured than companies that have been in business for a century? The decades of wasting time and making shoddier and shoddier cars never endear the company to consumers, witness the domestics. What people pay up for is what the company has done, _lately_. Longevity of a brand hardly correlates with either price or value. Take for example, Maybach, which had been not been making cars for some 60 years since Dr. Goebbels gave that total war speech in 1943. Yet newly revived it charges three times as much as a typical S class. On the other end of the spectrum, Oldsmobile died as a brand despite longevity, after decades of making shoddy cars. Olds was the second oldest brand in the world; should be a warning to MB. LS has not been selling on value alone for years. The reality of monthly lease cost has long preceded the convergence of MSRP's. For some of these cars, MSRP's are nearly meaningless anyway. How many original S class buyers dare/care to own the vehicle past warranty anyway? Whatever MB puts forth as the lease price is what moves the car. Just look at the R class, 2007 model is $5000+ less than 2006 model in MSRP, but magically the lease numbers work out to be $50/mo lower for 2006. So how many people in 2009 will be willing to pay $5000 more for a 2006 over a 2007 as the MB published residual implies? The MSRP's are completely detached from reality. The monthly lease price is what connects the product with consumers for the majority of MB cars. |
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Replying to: houdini1 (Nov 29, 2006 8:28 pm) I was also a fan of the SC300. Not enough to actually buy one (maybe if it was offered as a convertible I might have), but it had a great stereo with a very unusual factory 12-disc changer (although mp3 CD capability and hdds eliminate the need for that many discs in modern cars), excellent brakes without a hint of grabbiness, and probably the best steering Lexus has ever done, short of the IS300. Very nicely weighted with good road feel. I really dont get what drfill sees in the SC430. It lost the SC300\400's good styling, and lost all of the performance. The SC430 is a really boring car to drive. A CLK AMG makes it feel like a big Buick by comparison. Most cars make it feel like a big Buick, actually. |
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