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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2145 of 2473

#21441 of 24723 Re: Tag/Merc [drfill] by merc1

Nov 28, 2006 (6:33 am)

Replying to: drfill (Nov 28, 2006 6:23 am)
Doc a "superior" luxury car doesn't come last place. At best it should have been 2nd or 3rd if were that convincing as a pure luxury car. What you're not seeing here is that the LS460L luxury wasn't superior enough to overcome its other flaws and on top of that it was priced at a very un-Lexus like 93K. That was only 10K less than the Benz, not the usual 15-20K. For that type of money it needs to be more well rounded. Mercedes proves that you can have better handling with a still plush ride so there is no excuse to be made there.
 
The LS has been, and is still, the superior luxury car, according to C&D, and many buyers.
 
Right, going by this statement and its placement that puts it in the Buick ranks based on other aspects of a "luxury car", i.e. dynamics. I mean luxury is having the best of everything or a darn good combination of it all the S-Class dit that in this test at least. This luxury advantage you speak of is based on what exactly? A softer ride, softer leather, more gadgets, 1/2 of a Maybach recliner? The LS460L was simply overpriced and outdone dynamically this time around. Why should a buyer of a 93K car have to accept a smaller trunk if they want more options? What other make does that? Not BMW, Mercedes, Audi.
 
The seats were embarassingly hard. Durability is no excuse for that, as you'll know, Lexus has no problem with the durability of their leather seats. Duarable and rich. Could Mercedes pull that off? I guess not
 
What I said before still stands Doc, the leather was hard because of durability back in those days and the seats being hard was/is a German car tradition. I have seen a many older LS and especially Acura Legends with cracked driver seats whether or not you believe it or not is up to you. There is nothing rich about 90s era LS400s with cracked driver seats due to all that soft leather not standing up to wear and tear. Those seats lasted forever in those old Benzes anyone can tell you that. Mercedes still doesn't make seats like a Lexus, the previous LS430 comes to mind. NO support and like sitting on a couch, hardly the ideal setup for actually driving the car, heck that seat wasn't good for anything but giving you a place to sit. Even a luxury car should have had better seats than that.
 
Again, what does any of this have to do with 2007? Ditto about the LS430's awful seats, as plush as they were.
 
M

#21442 of 24723 Hp by drfill

Nov 28, 2006 (6:45 am)

Oh, so when Edmunds tested the LS in 2000, and it had the best braking distances, more than a car length better than the $70k+ S500, did that cross the S500 off your list? Did the S500 become an unacceptable car?
 
    Or did you change your tune, now that the S has good brakes?
 
    Let me know which words you'd like to eat.
 
    DrFill

#21443 of 24723 Merc by drfill

Nov 28, 2006 (6:56 am)

What make offers the options this Lexus does? Not BMW, Mercedes, or Audi.
 
   Leather needs to be conditioned and cared for. Owners who take care of their leather seats, still have great leather seats, regardless of mileage, but they can crack, and that's part of buying a car with leather seating.
 
   I'd rather sit on the sidewalk than sit in some Mercedes seats. If the seat is uncomfortable, chances are I'm not buying the car. I can only imagine what a cold seat would feel like, first thing in the morning.
 
   Many would rather buy a Lexus that endure a Mercedes seat. Among other things to endure.
 
   To each his own.
 
   Lexus isn't building Recaro seats, and Mercedes won't make you drop your Bentley.
 
   DrFill

#21444 of 24723 Re: Regarding "The Test"... [] by designman

Nov 28, 2006 (7:17 am)

Replying to: unknown (Nov 27, 2006 9:45 pm)
I’d like to know how the LS in the comparo got to $93K. Must have had the Executive Package with the rear massage parlor which probably helps account for the heaviest-in-group 4700 lbs that C&D reported. It definitely had the air suspension and variable steering so the only thing APPARENTLY missing was the Touring Package and the only difference is that it comes with the bigger brake rotors and 19” wheels as opposed to 18” on the tester. So you can’t blame handling deficiencies on the wheels. C&D should have spelled this out in greater detail. I would however raise an eyebrow at the variable steering which never was mentioned in their drive. I would imagine it makes the steering even numb-er, and neither was there anything about air suspension settings. This is one of the reasons why I don’t like C&D. Loosy goosy and fluffy, certainly in this instance.
 
You bring up some good points doc but don’t expect much more out of the reviews. If R&T gets their hands on this batch the LS is in for a serious ass whoopin’ unless they completely alter their standards to account for the luxury factor. But they will never overlook the handling qualities of the Benz, Bimmer and Audi. Seems like this new S has something going for it. That gotta-have-it factor really stands out, although so does the fun-to-drive factor of the Audi.
 
By the way, I drove the SWB LS on Friday which allowed a more extended test than the LWB I drove at the Taste. There’s too much preoccupation with the LWB. SWB has its own merits and the LWB is not inherently better so if anyone has their eyes on the shorter version I would continue in that direction. There really is no need to be infatuated with longer unless you need the extra rear leg room. Maybe I’ll do a review.
 
One more thing. Remember how iDrive induced the wrath of the writers? Seems as if frivolous luxury could be working to the same effect with the LS this time around.

#21445 of 24723 Tagman by designman

Nov 28, 2006 (7:18 am)

Good luck once again!

#21446 of 24723 Re: Merc [drfill] by merc1

Nov 28, 2006 (7:29 am)

Replying to: drfill (Nov 28, 2006 6:56 am)
What make offers the options this Lexus does? Not BMW, Mercedes, or Audi.
 
And they didn't count worth anything this time around did they? A half-done recliner to mimic Maybach doesn't cut it.
 
Leather needs to be conditioned and cared for. Owners who take care of their leather seats, still have great leather seats, regardless of mileage, but they can crack, and that's part of buying a car with leather seating.
 
True and I'd think Lexus owners would do this, but all you have to do is look on a used car lot at some older Lexi and you'll see what I mean. Compare them to the Benzes there.
 
Right, and you know full well Mercedes' current seats aren't as firm/hard as their seats from 10 years ago, don't be ridiculous.
 
M

#21447 of 24723 Re: Regarding "The Test"... [designman] by killerbunny

Nov 28, 2006 (7:59 am)

Replying to: designman (Nov 28, 2006 7:17 am)
LOL, you guys took a magzine too seriously. C&D is just several writers who need to feed their family. The very fact that you are debating about it vigoriously made them successful.
 
Vote with you money, not your words. Just like Tagman did with his Porsche.

#21448 of 24723 Merc by drfill

Nov 28, 2006 (8:22 am)

Right, and you know full well Mercedes' current seats aren't as firm/hard as their seats from 10 years ago, don't be ridiculous.
 
    Didn't say the seats are the same now. This only proves my point. The seats were too hard, unappealing, and needed to be improved. Mercedes improved the seats, which makes the car better and more appealing.
 
    I love it when Mercedes takes my edicts to heart!
 
    Good job.
 
    D-man
  
    One more thing. Remember how iDrive induced the wrath of the writers? Seems as if frivolous luxury could be working to the same effect with the LS this time around.
    
    These are $100k cars. Any $100k car is frivolous! Lexus didn't make a $93k Lexus to do cartwheels.
 
    My general point is an LS with the Touring Pkg., optionede up to $85k still would've surpassed Mercedes luxury, and performed better in the dynamic tests.
 
    Lexus is pushing the features the New LS has. They are touting it as the best luxury car in it's class, and that mission was accomplished. If they wanted a more balanced car, get a car with the Touring Pkg. Simple.
 
    DrFill

#21449 of 24723 Re: Look at all of this! [tagman] by lexusguy

Nov 28, 2006 (8:43 am)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 27, 2006 8:48 pm)
Oh well, I was too darned busy purchasing a new Porsche Carrera S Cabriolet today. Yes, I did it. But, I purchased the six speed, and not the Tip.
 
Good to know that you got the Porsche you wanted, rather than the one you had to settle for. You should never be "settling" for anything at that kind of price. Congrats and enjoy. I know I'll be checking out the 928 when it launches in a few years. The Carrera Cab was a lot of fun, but it was just too small for me.

#21450 of 24723 Re: Regarding "The Test"... [designman] by dewey

Nov 28, 2006 (9:11 am)

Replying to: designman (Nov 28, 2006 7:17 am)
By the way, I drove the SWB LS on Friday which allowed a more extended test than the LWB I drove at the Taste. There’s too much preoccupation with the LWB. SWB has its own merits and the LWB is not inherently better so if anyone has their eyes on the shorter version I would continue in that direction. There really is no need to be infatuated with longer unless you need the extra rear leg room. Maybe I’ll do a review.
 
Maybe you should do a review. In fact previous C & D Lexus LS victories over the MB S Class were achieved in SWB form.
 
I am willing to wager that if a 62K$ SWB LS460 was used in the Jan. 07 C & D comparison test then the LS would have preserved its number one rank over the MB S Class, Audi A8, BMW 7 and Jaguar XJ.
 
Why? Because of price!
 
In prior years price played the biggest role in making the LS stand out against the Germans and that one solo Brit called the XJ. If an overpriced and ostentatious Lexus LS460 LWB was not used in this latest comparison test then I can almost assure you that the LS would rank number one again.

Messages Page 2145 of 2473

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