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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2133 of 2473

#21314 of 24723 Tag by drfill

Nov 25, 2006 (11:10 am)

So, it also makes sense to re-style the interiors of cars as well. Not an easy accomplishment, but Mercedes rose to the occasion. Lexus only tweaked the same old interior dash/center stack/console layout, while Mercedes S-Class interior represents a more recent and contemporary restyle.
 
    Contemporary to what? Buyers wanted the LS to offer AWD, more trunk sapce, more rear seat room, more features, more power. Lexus delivered.
 
    Apparently, the interior design was not a problem, or else changes would've been made. Having driven the car, I don't see any problem with the interior. I expected a great interior and got it. Luxurious, easy-to-use, and not changing for changes sake.
  
    Merc has constantly, ad-nausium, put up pics of Mercedes evolution in exterior styling. But they are at best inconsistent on interior styling, as the 1998, 2000, and 2006 have little incommon with each other. I didn't know the wheel needed reinvention. Mercedes interiors aren't "restyled", they are thrown out and started from scratch!
 
    And the interior relationship to BMW is well-known and unmistakable. How is it gonna be recent and contemporary, if it mocks a 5 year-old design? Denial is not just a river in Egypt
 
    The S-Class is a step back, inside and out. Still a fine car and all, but nothing for Lexus to fear. Lexus has it right, and Mercedes is trying to find an interior identity, and maybe seperate it's design from Maybach, which is better (from the last S500/600)
 
    I see chinks in the armor.
 
    And the rear end is AWFUL. AWFUL! It's just AWFUL!
 
    DrFill

#21315 of 24723 Re: Tag [drfill] by tagman

Nov 25, 2006 (11:29 am)

Replying to: drfill (Nov 25, 2006 11:10 am)
... and not changing for changes sake.
 
Change is an ongoing process in the automobile industry.
 
Merc has constantly, ad-nausium, put up pics of Mercedes evolution in exterior styling. But they are at best inconsistent on interior styling, as the 1998, 2000, and 2006 have little incommon with each other. I didn't know the wheel needed reinvention.
 
Meaningless point.
 
And the interior relationship to BMW is well-known and unmistakable. How is it gonna be recent and contemporary, if it mocks a 5 year-old design?
 
Now this is interesting. You have already admitted that the LS has got lots of BMW exterior styling... which is quite a few years old, yet suddenly you brag about the new and improved exterior styling, but on the other hand you say it is old BMW styling. You seem to use the BMW example only when it works for your argument, but discard it when it comes to the LS exterior styling, which is clearly borrowed from the BMW.
 
The S-Class is a step back, inside and out.
 
What kind of remark is THAT?
That's your opinion perhaps, but not the opinion of most reviewers and critics, and certainly not mine.
 
TagMan

#21316 of 24723 Re: LS Interest [laurasdada] by dewey

Nov 25, 2006 (12:36 pm)

Replying to: laurasdada (Nov 24, 2006 6:45 pm)
Thanks for the trip in the Wayback Machine. And it still looks pretty good to me. Is it yours?
 
Nope that Bricklin is not mine. And today I certainly would not want to search frantically for Bricklin replacement parts. Good luck for anyone attempting such an endeavor!
 
Dad immediately cancelled the order and ended up buying a Datsun 260Z.
 
Sounds like your dad was quite an enthusiast. During 1974 my dad drove a dated 1967 Ford Custom 500 and vowed never ever to buy a BMW again after owning a problematical BMW Isetta during the late 50s when he worked overseas.

#21317 of 24723 Re: Tag [tagman] by dewey

Nov 25, 2006 (1:16 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 25, 2006 11:29 am)
It is almost certain that the exterior and interior styling of the next generation BMW 7 Series will be emulated by both Lexus and MB in fuutre years.
 
And future Audi models will continue having a distinct and independent design as always. There is no single Audi that can be referred to as a BMW or MB wannabe.

#21318 of 24723 Re: Tag [dewey] by houdini1

Nov 25, 2006 (2:31 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Nov 25, 2006 1:16 pm)
There is no single Audi that can be referred to as wanting to be a BMW or MB wannabe.
 
Really? Just read the current Audi S6 follow-up here on Edmunds where it tried to be a BMW and/or MB but failed miserably!!

#21320 of 24723 Re: Interior Design [tagman] by anthonyp

Nov 25, 2006 (3:13 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 25, 2006 12:12 am)
These are some nice pictures, giving a person a great chance to see the different layouts....As I had a series of Lexus cars ( ls) for a number of years, I can attest to the ease of use, and further can say imo that the video screen (if that is what it is called) on the German cars is too small..
I see where Lexus has a really large one, and it stands out in such a manner that it would be hard to design around...On my current A8 the screen rotates away which is one of my favorite features, as I dislike it`s constant presence...
At first I was not to sure about the fender flares on the Mercedes as pictured by Merc, but after seeing the car firsthand I thought it to be quite interesting, and think it will age well....I guess I got jaded back in the eighties, so appreciate reliability to a larger degree....So far the Audi has aged well , but I still have my guard up as I remember the past....
Unfortunately Lexus has jumped the price quite a bit, therefore the value factor that I have grown accustomed to may be waning--unless the Germans quickly ratchet upward...Tony

#21321 of 24723 Test Drives by tagman

Nov 25, 2006 (7:19 pm)

Well, the Targa came in today and even though it cannot be delivered to anyone before November 28th, it was serviced and I drove it. Very nice, but I'm not all that impressed with the Tiptronic. One other little hang up is that when the glass roof panel slides back (open) all the way, it's lower edge (which contains the screen motor) blocks the entire lower 50% of rear window visibility. That was a total surprise I would have never anticipated. So, I left there needing to sleep on it.
 
Instead of going back home, I test drove the Mercedes SL550 and then the Jaguar XK. I figured if I was talking automatics here, I might as well test two more of the sweetest ones out there.
 
The SL550 was incredibly more powerful than the SL500 I had recently driven. The car handled beautifully and was smooth as silk. The retractable hardtop was wonderful. I left liking the SL.
 
The XK was amazingly faster than I expected, since the car is so light. Unfortunately the transmission kept getting confused about whether or not it was in automatic mode or manual mode. So, when it was in automatic mode, and I used the paddle shifter, it sometimes would not revert back to automatic mode. In addition, in the manual mode, it didn't respond properly to the paddle commands every time. The salesman said it obviously needed to be fixed. If it hadn't been for that fussy transmission, I'd have had a better test drive. But, nevertheless, I was still able to get a good idea of how the car handles. I left liking the XK, but I think it is a little bigger than I want to go at this point in time.
 
That leaves the Porsche with that Tiptronic, or the SL550.
 
I'll probably need to drive them both again tomorrow.
 
BTW, what's with those goofy cupholders in both of these German cars? The Porsche's cupholders are pathetic. I'd be scared to death to use them with a big hot cup of Starbucks. And the SL's are questionable, although the Mercedes salesman suggested I get the Mercedes beverage cup which is made to fit the cupholder. Goodness gracious, does anyone here have experience with the cupholders in the recent 911 or the recent SL?
 
TagMan

#21322 of 24723 Tag by drfill

Nov 25, 2006 (7:21 pm)

... and not changing for changes sake.
  
Change is an ongoing process in the automobile industry.
  
Merc has constantly, ad-nausium, put up pics of Mercedes evolution in exterior styling. But they are at best inconsistent on interior styling, as the 1998, 2000, and 2006 have little incommon with each other. I didn't know the wheel needed reinvention.
  
Meaningless point.
  
And the interior relationship to BMW is well-known and unmistakable. How is it gonna be recent and contemporary, if it mocks a 5 year-old design?
  
Now this is interesting. You have already admitted that the LS has got lots of BMW exterior styling... which is quite a few years old, yet suddenly you brag about the new and improved exterior styling, but on the other hand you say it is old BMW styling. You seem to use the BMW example only when it works for your argument, but discard it when it comes to the LS exterior styling, which is clearly borrowed from the BMW.
 
   Change IS part of the automotive industry.
 
   Continuous Improvement (or kaisen) is not. Do I need to point out Exhibit A?
  
   The meaningless point you overlook is how Mercedes goes to such pains to show an evolutionary design theme outside, but that philosophy gets thrown out of the window when you get inside?
 
   YOU use the BMW to prove your point, but YOU are being hippocritical.
 
   The LS has some elements of the 7 series in the rear end (Only far better done).
  
   The S has some elements of the 7-series interior, and they are no better off for it. The last S-Class interior was clearly better. So good, in fact, the Maybach borrows heavily from it. And I've heard no complaints about the Maybach interiors, have you?
 
   I haven't heard many kudos for the 7-series interior, but Mercedes seems to like it well enough.
 
   Just not having COMAND or iDrive keeps the LS ahead of the others.
 
   Maybe you want something flashy, or more eye-popping, but Lexus is only guilty of not screwing up a great thing.
 
   I wish I could say the same for the 7 or S-Class.
 
   The 1995-2000 7 was clearly better turned out than the current model, and the S has not learned from that history.
 
    Those who do not learn from history.......
 
    DrFill

#21323 of 24723 Re: Tag [drfill] by tagman

Nov 25, 2006 (7:35 pm)

Replying to: drfill (Nov 25, 2006 7:21 pm)
You have expressed quite a negative sentiment regarding the S-Class. Yet, when you drove it, you were more complimentary of the vehicle as I recall.
 
Obviously you do not like the Mercedes S-Class, and you prefer the Lexus LS. That's fine, but it doesn't change my opinion of the LS. I still think it gets credit for a terrific fit and finish and top-notch quality. I just do not think that it's appearance, interior or exterior, are as exciting as other cars in these high price categories.
 
I guess, with all its credits, I wish it were more exciting a vehicle. That would get me to consider one. But as it is, it's just too mainstream and plain.
 
The way I see it, the LS needs more pizazz!
 
Remember, Doc, there is no right or wrong here, just our opinions. And, I think we already know each others point of view. So let's let it rest.
 
Help me out with the Porsche Tiptronic 911 vs. SL550 dilemma.
 
TagMan

Messages Page 2133 of 2473

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