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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2121 of 2473

#21197 of 24723 Re: Seems like our debate is worldwide [2001gs430] by syswei

Nov 20, 2006 (9:03 am)

Replying to: 2001gs430 (Nov 20, 2006 8:28 am)
Thanks for that article.
 
This quote:
 
For its part, a spokesman for Mercedes says that the data in the Consumer Reports rankings "is totally out of sync with what we're seeing in the mainstream research..."
 
Made me wonder, what "mainstream research" was the MB spokesman refering to, since the JDP IQS says largely the same thing as CR when it comes to 2006 MB models? Or was he just trying to put one past the unsuspecting public, by intimating that only CR casts MB quality/reliability in a bad light, when in fact CR has alot of company.

#21198 of 24723 Re: Jaguar is NUMERO UNO [lexusguy] by tagman

Nov 20, 2006 (10:20 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 19, 2006 10:24 pm)
I agree that the next rendition needs a sleeker and more modern appearance. But, I am still a fan of the classic lines. Even with a modernization, I hope that the "look" is still recognizable as the XJ.
 
I have posted before that some streamlining of the exterior would help. And certainly an interior update.
 
My point is that, I still enjoy the classic Jaguar XJ . . . a lot.
 
To sell more, however, you are right, and I have posted that before in the past. On this point, we are in total agreement.
 
I am afraid, though, that the next rendition of the XJ will ruin the car. We'll see. But I'll bet they ruin it, by not streamlining the classic look, and instead coming up with a new poorly sculpted exterior and a horrible grill or front end treatment. Look at that grill on the S-Type, for example, and that car's gangster-looking cartoonish body lines.
 
For that reason, I think this latest series of XJ's may prove to be the best in history. Unbelievable as it is, this latest generation of XJ's are reliable as heck, as proven by reliability statistics and JD Power, unlike the X-Type and S-Type that fall apart. And...they have not yet been completely destroyed by a future styling disaster. Current models could very well prove to be the last of the "good ones". And, for an amazing price as well.
 
But, ultimately we'll see what happens, won't we?
 
TagMan

#21199 of 24723 MB Quality is Job One by dewey

Nov 20, 2006 (10:48 am)

GS430 & Syswei,
 
1) The source of MB's anger is that CR results are not representative of the new superior quality of the 07 S , 07 E and hopefully the 07 GL. MB is aware of their scarred past and they are seeking redemption with their new and improved models. Unfortunately the latest and current CR stats are a reflection of the past and not the present.
 
2) Made me wonder, what "mainstream research" was the MB spokesman refering to
 
MB is referring to data that is far more comprehensive than CR/JD stats. For example:
 
A) He adds: "As you're aware, the IQS included a new survey methodology by JD Power which goes well beyond the actual quality of the vehicles and into subjective measurement (an important distinction) of how customers feel about such things as the design, look and operation of features, controls and equipment."
 
B) Improved customer satisfaction surveys
 
C) Improved warranty data
 
The above results indicates that Dr. Zetche (despite his very short lived career in advertising ) is doing a heck of a job steering MB in a postive direction. If this trend continues MB will regain their number one position in "Quality and Reliability" sooner than you may think (hopefully during our lifetimes or at least our kids lifetimes)

#21200 of 24723 Re: MB Quality is Job One [dewey] by syswei

Nov 20, 2006 (11:19 am)

Replying to: dewey (Nov 20, 2006 10:48 am)
the new superior quality of the 07 S , 07 E and hopefully the 07 GL
 
I haven't seen anything on the 07 E or GL yet, but JDP has early results on the 07 S, and I think "superior" is a word that should only be used relative to the previous-generation S, not the current competition to the S. JDP rated overall mechanical quality "about average". Hardly inspiring, imho.

#21201 of 24723 Re: Seems like our debate is worldwide [2001gs430] by houdini1

Nov 20, 2006 (2:57 pm)

Replying to: 2001gs430 (Nov 20, 2006 8:28 am)
Wow, what a damning article. Not only did CNN Money agree with CR about Mercedes being low quality, they also accused Mercedes of being in denial of the problem and of wanting to shoot the messenger. It certainly appears that this is true.
 
Quality and reliability go hand in hand. Lexus understands this but apparently Mercedes does not. They can't even fix the brake dust problem.

#21202 of 24723 Re: Seems like our debate is worldwide [houdini1] by anthonyp

Nov 20, 2006 (4:12 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Nov 20, 2006 2:57 pm)
Funny you should mention the break dust problem....I think hpowders is also sick of it as I am....Does anyone know why all the German cars are confronted with this....I am sick and tired of my wheels having to be cleaned (by me) every week.. Thanks Tony

#21203 of 24723 Audi and China by syswei

Nov 20, 2006 (4:22 pm)

I read that Audi still has a 60% share of the luxury car market in China. Does anyone know how they got to be so strong, historically?
 
Read separately that the China auto market (total, not luxury) is on track this year to be the 2nd largest worldwide, surpassing Japan.
 
And, off topic, that Buick is on track this year to sell more cars in China than in the U.S. (Probably says something abou the perception problem Buick has in the U.S.)

#21204 of 24723 Re: Seems like our debate is worldwide [anthonyp] by tagman

Nov 20, 2006 (5:47 pm)

Replying to: anthonyp (Nov 20, 2006 4:12 pm)
Funny you should mention the break dust problem....I think hpowders is also sick of it as I am....Does anyone know why all the German cars are confronted with this....I am sick and tired of my wheels having to be cleaned (by me) every week.
 
There is no doubt that Mercedes, and others are plagued with the brake dust issue. I believe I read somewhere that it has to do with the softer brake pads that Mercedes, BMW, and many others use. While they have terrific stopping capabilities, the downside is the tremendous dust.
 
There are ceramic brake pad alternatives out there, and I have not tried them, but I have heard good things about them.
 
If you do not want to go to ceramics, then there are also coatings that can be applied to the wheels that will help discourage the dust from building up so quickly.
 
TagMan

#21205 of 24723 Re: Jaguar is NUMERO UNO [tagman] by lexusguy

Nov 20, 2006 (6:57 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 20, 2006 10:20 am)
I am afraid, though, that the next rendition of the XJ will ruin the car. We'll see. But I'll bet they ruin it, by not streamlining the classic look, and instead coming up with a new poorly sculpted exterior and a horrible grill or front end treatment. Look at that grill on the S-Type, for example, and that car's gangster-looking cartoonish body lines.
 
I think that if anybody can save the XJ, its Ian Callum. His Aston Martins are regarded as some of the most gorgeous cars ever made. He's no Chris Bangle. Short of having Pininfarina do the car (and even they can screw up, look at the 612, or that Enzo ruining P4\5 bubble car) he's about as good as there is. I don't think the next one will be another company killing '86 "XJ40".
 
The current S-type is former designers attempt to redo this car. As I've said, Jaguar needs to stop trying to "re-imagine" the works of Sir Lyons, and start from scratch. Also, they need a healthy dose of performance. The original S-type 4.2 was the M5 of its day, outperforming anything MB or BMW could throw at it. How long has it been since Jag could say that?
 

#21206 of 24723 Re: Jaguar is NUMERO UNO [lexusguy] by tagman

Nov 20, 2006 (7:35 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 20, 2006 6:57 pm)
Yep...that's the pic of the historical inspiration for the S-Type alright...or at the rate they're going...it actually IS the NEXT S-Type.
 
TagMan

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