Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#21094 of 24723 Jaguar is NUMERO UNO
Nov 17, 2006 (5:20 am)
J.D. Power and Associates rated Jaguar as number one in Sales Satisfaction for a 3rd consecutive year.
The Jaguar brand has earned the top quality award from the German motoring magazine Auto Zeitung's .
The Jaguar XK was Recommended for the 2007 Award in the Premium Sporty/Performance Car category by Consumer Guide.
The fact that a such a small company like Jaguar which happens to be owned by a financially trouble parent(Ford) is proof that any auto manufacture can be successful in achieving outstanding reliability and sales service success.
Trying to build a car that can mimic the driving dynamics of a Porsche or BMW is another story altogether. Even the most financially well endowed companies in the world cannot mimic these two niche players.
#21095 of 24723 Re: One Happy Family you all are with the HELM [oac]
Nov 17, 2006 (5:24 am)
"With reluctance I had to kill the LS460 deal."
A good Dad.
A not so good Dad would have tried the old Ralph Kramden trick: "Heads I win. Tails you lose."
#21096 of 24723 Re: One Happy Family you all are with the HELM [tagman]
Nov 17, 2006 (5:27 am)
Sounds like my step-daughter. I was supposed to follow her one day and she completely lost me in her 4.4 X5. Gave me the ol' Freudian slip!
#21097 of 24723 Re: Small is Beautiful [cdnpinhead]
Nov 17, 2006 (5:40 am)
So, how bad is the C-230, really?
Not bad, not bad at all. But is it really that good?
#21098 of 24723 Re: Small is Beautiful [dewey]
Nov 17, 2006 (6:02 am)
And it really doesn't belong here...
#21099 of 24723 Re: Ala Merc plant dissappointing, but not state's fault[merc1] [thegraduate] [merc1] [brightness04]
Nov 17, 2006 (7:43 am)
Brightness, that is one good analysis/post. Complete backed up with facts and figures instead of generalizations we often see on this forum. Keep up the good work.
#21100 of 24723 Re: Ala Merc plant dissappointing, but not state's fault[merc1] [thegraduate] [merc1] [brightness04] [2001gs430]
Nov 17, 2006 (8:11 am)
You call the following facts and figures? Sounds like general opinion to me in addition to the platitude:
The devil in the details costs a lot of money to be engineered out BMW probably can't even afford the army of process and quality control engineers that Toyota has.
As much as we like to make fun of the domestics, they are better placed in the market place to emulate the Toyota/Honda success on quality than the Germans because the domestics have the volume/cash flow (even if little of that cash flow translates into profit)
You wanna analyze the devile in the details? Maybe you should look at BMW's PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING as opposed to Toyota's quality-control engineering. Poor little BMW quality-control engineers ain't good fuh nuttin'. They only put their money where their mouth is with a 4-year warranty with free maintenance and great lease deals, the latter of which has everyone perplexed.
Throwing up $14 bil vs $160 bil isn't what I call facts and figures. It is only being used speciously. Get into the "devil in the details" rather than making generalizations with facts and figures.
More Toyota worship and sanctimony.
#21101 of 24723 Re: Ala Merc plant dissappointing, but not state's fault[merc1] [thegraduate] [merc1] [brightness04]
Nov 17, 2006 (8:14 am)
BMW worldwide sales is only about $14 billion, whereas that of Toyota is $160 billion. It takes a lot of raw cash flow to engineer and test vehicle to tight tolerance and high reliability.
With BMW's mere 14 billion, they have managed to engineer some of the best handling cars in the business. Yet, Toyota has that massive warchest and leaves one wondering just how much money could Toyota possibly need to improve the performance of some of its vehicles, and why then does the performance of Toyota/Lexus vehicles not even come close to that of a BMW, even when appropriate such as with the Lexus IS.
I'd have to say that when it comes to vehicle performance, BMW is much more capable with its money . . . especially considering the massive monetary difference between the two companies that you highlighted.
#21102 of 24723 Re: Ala Merc plant dissappointing, but not state's fault[merc1] [thegraduate] [merc1] [brightness04] [2001gs430]
Nov 17, 2006 (8:28 am)